1 00:00:07,039 --> 00:00:04,849 549 the number you've been darling is 2 00:00:13,370 --> 00:00:07,049 not connected please check your number 3 00:00:14,959 --> 00:00:13,380 before dialing again 549 the dilution 4 00:00:17,210 --> 00:00:14,969 you've been trying is called homeopathy 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:17,220 please check a baguette rose number 6 00:00:31,659 --> 00:00:28,190 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 7 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:31,669 from Australia for science and reason 8 00:00:39,070 --> 00:00:35,520 yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan 9 00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:42,170 hello it's Stefan here in the zone this 10 00:00:46,820 --> 00:00:44,550 week all on my own poor rich has got 11 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:46,830 laryngitis I think he's not even able to 12 00:00:51,290 --> 00:00:49,440 talk so he's left it all up to me to do 13 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:51,300 the intros and outros and try and get 14 00:00:56,030 --> 00:00:53,760 things rolling here very weird being in 15 00:00:57,890 --> 00:00:56,040 the zone on your own I tell you I feel a 16 00:00:59,930 --> 00:00:57,900 little bit quantum here i'm hosting god 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:00:59,940 co-hosting and I'm sort of observing 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:02,130 myself doing just that in some sort of 19 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:04,890 indivisible co hosting hosting sort of 20 00:01:08,780 --> 00:01:07,230 zona shut of thing and it's just not 21 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:08,790 working for me so I'm going to try and 22 00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:10,230 get through it as quick as I can and we 23 00:01:15,260 --> 00:01:12,600 hope the rigid gets better soon coming 24 00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:15,270 up in the show we've got Jennifer wallet 25 00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:17,729 now she's a fascinating lady who's in 26 00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:20,190 Hollywood trying to promote real science 27 00:01:25,249 --> 00:01:23,280 in the movies that's going to destroy a 28 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:25,259 good script writing careers or about of 29 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:26,820 ninety-eight percent of those Hollywood 30 00:01:32,930 --> 00:01:31,170 script writers M night Shyamalan and 31 00:01:34,430 --> 00:01:32,940 what the hell he can do but it's going 32 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:34,440 to be fascinating thing let's see if we 33 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:36,810 can see what Jennifer while it has got 34 00:01:42,050 --> 00:01:39,210 to say about her mission of introducing 35 00:01:44,149 --> 00:01:42,060 reality to the movies after that we've 36 00:01:46,190 --> 00:01:44,159 got dr. Rachel reports with the famous 37 00:01:48,620 --> 00:01:46,200 dr. Rachel Dunlop and then the 38 00:01:50,930 --> 00:01:48,630 ever-popular think tank is where a bunch 39 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:50,940 of skeptics go head to head over a 40 00:01:54,950 --> 00:01:52,530 couple of beers and try and solve the 41 00:01:57,590 --> 00:01:54,960 world's problems so yes all in all a 42 00:02:00,020 --> 00:01:57,600 good show show 35 can't wait for Richard 43 00:02:20,170 --> 00:02:00,030 to come back it's pretty lonely here but 44 00:02:24,980 --> 00:02:23,330 I'm Kylie Sturgis and together with 45 00:02:27,979 --> 00:02:24,990 Richard Saunders we're talking to 46 00:02:30,530 --> 00:02:27,989 Jennifer Wyatt she's the author of the 47 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:30,540 physics of the buffyverse and black 48 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:33,150 bodies and quantum cats you may be 49 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:35,310 familiar with her blog cocktail party 50 00:02:39,470 --> 00:02:37,170 physics which features half a dozen 51 00:02:41,420 --> 00:02:39,480 female contributors on a group science 52 00:02:43,790 --> 00:02:41,430 blog where contributors and readers 53 00:02:47,150 --> 00:02:43,800 alike chat about the latest ideas and 54 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:47,160 news in science with a twist jennifer 55 00:02:49,850 --> 00:02:48,930 has been recently appointed the director 56 00:02:52,729 --> 00:02:49,860 of the science and entertainment 57 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:52,739 exchange allowing entertainment industry 58 00:02:56,660 --> 00:02:54,630 professionals access to the top 59 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:56,670 scientists and engineers in order to 60 00:03:00,650 --> 00:02:58,290 bring the reality of cutting-edge 61 00:03:03,229 --> 00:03:00,660 science to the story lines we enjoy on 62 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:03,239 the big and small screens she'll be 63 00:03:07,670 --> 00:03:05,370 presenting at the amazing meeting seven 64 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:07,680 in Las Vegas and we're very proud to 65 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:09,690 have a talking to us here on the 66 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:20,310 skeptics I'm and joining us from Los 67 00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:22,290 Angeles is Jennifer wallet hello 68 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:25,200 Jennifer hello Richard how are you I'm 69 00:03:28,729 --> 00:03:26,640 really well now I understand this is 70 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:28,739 you're a bit of a novice when it comes 71 00:03:32,780 --> 00:03:31,290 to skype this is my very first time and 72 00:03:37,699 --> 00:03:32,790 I love it already I'm gonna be using 73 00:03:40,310 --> 00:03:37,709 this time I've introduced you to a new 74 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:40,320 addiction I'm afraid about that yeah i 75 00:03:45,170 --> 00:03:43,170 think you have you now we're very 76 00:03:47,180 --> 00:03:45,180 excited to hear that you're going to be 77 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:47,190 a guest speaker at the amazing meeting 78 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:49,890 coming up in in a very few weeks now in 79 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:52,590 Los in Las Vegas with James Randi can 80 00:03:56,210 --> 00:03:54,660 you tell our audience a little bit of 81 00:03:57,650 --> 00:03:56,220 course they'll all be there but 82 00:03:58,910 --> 00:03:57,660 regardless can you tell them a little 83 00:04:02,690 --> 00:03:58,920 bit about what you're going to be 84 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:02,700 speaking on well um uh I wear many hats 85 00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:04,380 but the main one that I'm wearing these 86 00:04:08,810 --> 00:04:06,840 days is I'm director of a new program of 87 00:04:10,190 --> 00:04:08,820 the National Academy of Sciences called 88 00:04:12,349 --> 00:04:10,200 the science and entertainment exchange 89 00:04:14,150 --> 00:04:12,359 and of course I've known phil plait 90 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:14,160 through the blogosphere for a couple of 91 00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:17,970 years now and one of the things that the 92 00:04:22,850 --> 00:04:19,979 science entertainment exchange does is 93 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:22,860 try and get we basically try to 94 00:04:27,950 --> 00:04:24,960 foster creative collaborations between 95 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:27,960 science and Hollywood so for tifa TV 96 00:04:32,959 --> 00:04:31,110 show needs a scientist to you know for 97 00:04:34,850 --> 00:04:32,969 particular so that they're working on or 98 00:04:36,050 --> 00:04:34,860 a movie director wants you know to sit 99 00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:36,060 down and brainstorm with a couple of 100 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:38,400 physicists about you know how wormholes 101 00:04:43,969 --> 00:04:40,889 work and things like that we would find 102 00:04:45,740 --> 00:04:43,979 a scientist who can do this so we have a 103 00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:45,750 lot of volunteer scientists who call in 104 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:47,520 and offer their services and we have a 105 00:04:51,649 --> 00:04:48,990 database that we're building and we 106 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:51,659 match them up and the intent here I 107 00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:53,250 don't know if you've noticed i just did 108 00:05:01,040 --> 00:04:57,120 this blog post on the skeptics blog port 109 00:05:02,779 --> 00:05:01,050 am on this that you've got shows now 110 00:05:05,390 --> 00:05:02,789 coming on things like The Mentalist 111 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:05,400 things like house things like CSI that 112 00:05:10,399 --> 00:05:07,610 have a much more scientific based 113 00:05:11,899 --> 00:05:10,409 rational approach Mentalist in 114 00:05:14,029 --> 00:05:11,909 particular especially on the earlier 115 00:05:15,890 --> 00:05:14,039 episodes really drove home there's no 116 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:15,900 such thing as psychics you know run-in 117 00:05:19,879 --> 00:05:17,849 lie to me actually in their second 118 00:05:22,610 --> 00:05:19,889 episode debunked lie detector tests 119 00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:22,620 you've got Gregory House who is like 120 00:05:26,209 --> 00:05:24,360 this complete curmudgeon but people will 121 00:05:28,659 --> 00:05:26,219 listen to a negative message from him 122 00:05:31,369 --> 00:05:28,669 because they love the character so and 123 00:05:33,469 --> 00:05:31,379 you know you can nitpick all you want 124 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:33,479 about these shows but the fact is week 125 00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:35,580 after week after week this message is 126 00:05:39,140 --> 00:05:37,440 getting drilled into people and that 127 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:39,150 does over the long term have an effect 128 00:05:43,999 --> 00:05:41,250 so the National Academy is hoping to 129 00:05:46,219 --> 00:05:44,009 basically foster this current trend in 130 00:05:47,629 --> 00:05:46,229 television and day and get more 131 00:05:49,730 --> 00:05:47,639 interactions between science and 132 00:05:51,490 --> 00:05:49,740 Hollywood in hopes of changing the way 133 00:05:53,420 --> 00:05:51,500 science and scientists are trained 134 00:05:56,809 --> 00:05:53,430 that's very interesting you should say 135 00:05:59,409 --> 00:05:56,819 that because we have also mentioning 136 00:06:02,300 --> 00:05:59,419 house of course we have also are 137 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:02,310 starring in house hugh laurie who is a 138 00:06:06,769 --> 00:06:04,710 very well-known skeptic in fact and i 139 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:06,779 don't know how much influence he has 140 00:06:11,499 --> 00:06:09,000 personally on the scripts or what have 141 00:06:14,749 --> 00:06:11,509 you but certainly the house character is 142 00:06:17,059 --> 00:06:14,759 comes across as a quite a strong skeptic 143 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:17,069 in many aspects oh yeah he's a marvelous 144 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:18,449 character and of course i'ma i've been a 145 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:20,310 fan of hugh laurie for years i was a big 146 00:06:25,459 --> 00:06:22,289 black at her fan i used to watch fry and 147 00:06:26,749 --> 00:06:25,469 laurie so unusual for an American I find 148 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:26,759 that very few Americans have heard of 149 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:29,370 blackadder but I remember from that so 150 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:30,990 here we know an American accent come out 151 00:06:36,879 --> 00:06:34,560 of his mouth is really bizarre it is 152 00:06:38,350 --> 00:06:36,889 anybody does it very well of course 153 00:06:40,809 --> 00:06:38,360 er here on the skeptics and we 154 00:06:44,499 --> 00:06:40,819 interviewed his partner former partner 155 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:44,509 and great friend Stephen Fry Oh big 156 00:06:48,939 --> 00:06:46,370 friend of science yeah oh absolutely 157 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:48,949 stephen Fry's a huge friend of science 158 00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:52,849 and a skeptical man himself and also 159 00:06:57,820 --> 00:06:55,430 another link i can make with the 160 00:07:00,339 --> 00:06:57,830 mentalist is it stars Simon Baker who is 161 00:07:01,629 --> 00:07:00,349 of course Australian exactly exactly i 162 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:01,639 did let me tell you if you're gonna if 163 00:07:05,679 --> 00:07:03,710 you're going to you know crush people's 164 00:07:07,390 --> 00:07:05,689 you know delusions and tell them there's 165 00:07:09,779 --> 00:07:07,400 no such thing as psychics at least give 166 00:07:14,260 --> 00:07:09,789 them Simon Baker to deliver them 167 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:14,270 speaking as a woman you know at least a 168 00:07:17,860 --> 00:07:16,400 devilish smile saying you know honey 169 00:07:19,149 --> 00:07:17,870 there's no such thing as psychics but 170 00:07:22,899 --> 00:07:19,159 I'll smile at you and that'll make it 171 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:22,909 better I must remember that there's a 172 00:07:25,779 --> 00:07:24,289 little tip for me there thank you 173 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:25,789 because I've been known to go on TV 174 00:07:32,019 --> 00:07:27,529 myself from time to time and tell people 175 00:07:33,969 --> 00:07:32,029 there are no such things as psychics get 176 00:07:35,529 --> 00:07:33,979 that you know devil-may-care smile in 177 00:07:38,679 --> 00:07:35,539 there and you might actually find that 178 00:07:40,540 --> 00:07:38,689 they'll be more likely to listen good 179 00:07:42,519 --> 00:07:40,550 tip a very good tip now it's very 180 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:42,529 interesting you should should be 181 00:07:46,749 --> 00:07:44,330 concerned with this at the moment I have 182 00:07:49,390 --> 00:07:46,759 had experiences myself with television 183 00:07:53,950 --> 00:07:49,400 and in the movie industry is it very 184 00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:53,960 difficult to to try and get producers 185 00:07:58,570 --> 00:07:56,449 especially knowing the industry a little 186 00:08:00,670 --> 00:07:58,580 bit as I do to come around to your way 187 00:08:02,889 --> 00:08:00,680 of thinking or at least see the benefit 188 00:08:04,929 --> 00:08:02,899 of being accurate well are you it's 189 00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:04,939 surprising I think there's a lot it that 190 00:08:08,829 --> 00:08:06,860 may have been the case more in the past 191 00:08:10,510 --> 00:08:08,839 and it probably still is to a certain 192 00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:10,520 extent the case because people change 193 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:12,889 slowly but I mean Hollywood is 194 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:14,240 essentially about making money it's not 195 00:08:17,110 --> 00:08:15,770 about all tourism it's basically you 196 00:08:19,899 --> 00:08:17,120 know what's there is this is the show 197 00:08:22,659 --> 00:08:19,909 going to be a hit and I think that you 198 00:08:25,179 --> 00:08:22,669 know a lot of the big hit shows right 199 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:25,189 now have been science need with a 200 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:26,870 rational theme a lot of the procedurals 201 00:08:31,119 --> 00:08:28,610 they want procedurals that have this 202 00:08:33,370 --> 00:08:31,129 court of science skeptical rationalist 203 00:08:35,290 --> 00:08:33,380 worldview associated with them and they 204 00:08:36,969 --> 00:08:35,300 really like that you've got a built-in 205 00:08:41,079 --> 00:08:36,979 drama for starters whenever they come 206 00:08:42,939 --> 00:08:41,089 across New Age stuff so they just really 207 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:42,949 like it and so I think that in terms of 208 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:45,290 television at least a lot of them are 209 00:08:50,590 --> 00:08:47,930 more open to it and we have certainly 210 00:08:52,329 --> 00:08:50,600 had we have you know pretty 211 00:08:53,889 --> 00:08:52,339 and directors coming to us for major 212 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:53,899 films wanting to work with us I mean 213 00:09:00,189 --> 00:08:55,730 it's not that they don't care about the 214 00:09:01,329 --> 00:09:00,199 science they do the trick is that mainly 215 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:01,339 what they were afraid of is that the 216 00:09:05,079 --> 00:09:02,930 scientists will try and assist they do a 217 00:09:07,420 --> 00:09:05,089 documentary and ultimately we're talking 218 00:09:10,420 --> 00:09:07,430 about a story mmm the science is always 219 00:09:11,889 --> 00:09:10,430 going to take a backseat to the story so 220 00:09:13,509 --> 00:09:11,899 I mean I think it's very important that 221 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:13,519 we not get confused about what we can 222 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:15,860 accomplish in Hollywood and and na s the 223 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:17,690 National Academy is very clear that we 224 00:09:22,569 --> 00:09:19,310 do not interfere with the narrative with 225 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:22,579 the story we want to we want Hollywood 226 00:09:26,470 --> 00:09:24,410 to basically help us inspire people and 227 00:09:28,629 --> 00:09:26,480 get them interested in science and in 228 00:09:30,249 --> 00:09:28,639 rationalism so that they then go on and 229 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:30,259 read more and become more educated but 230 00:09:33,189 --> 00:09:31,850 if you don't get that initial spark if 231 00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:33,199 you don't get that initial hey this 232 00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:35,630 looks cool then you've already lost you 233 00:09:38,350 --> 00:09:36,800 can make all you can make the best 234 00:09:40,569 --> 00:09:38,360 documentaries in the world and no one's 235 00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:40,579 going to like the open to them so that's 236 00:09:44,019 --> 00:09:41,870 kind of what we focus on and we find 237 00:09:46,329 --> 00:09:44,029 they are very open to that they look of 238 00:09:48,670 --> 00:09:46,339 sitting down with scientists they love 239 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:48,680 hashing out ideas they don't always take 240 00:09:52,389 --> 00:09:50,480 the ideas or sometimes they'll take the 241 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:52,399 idea and they'll reinvent it in a way 242 00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:53,810 that maybe might make a scientist a 243 00:09:58,660 --> 00:09:55,670 little uncomfortable and you kind of 244 00:10:00,519 --> 00:09:58,670 have to let go of that yeah and yeah you 245 00:10:03,429 --> 00:10:00,529 know in the long term gradually we're 246 00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:03,439 making a long-term change yes well I I 247 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:05,600 can certainly see the point of view from 248 00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:07,850 the producer they do as you say in the 249 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:08,990 end of the day they're trying to make a 250 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:11,810 product that will sell and there will be 251 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:13,970 comes a time where they're simply not 252 00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:16,310 going to let the truth get into in the 253 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:19,040 way of a good story well or you have to 254 00:10:22,629 --> 00:10:20,930 bend the facts I mean you know sometimes 255 00:10:24,490 --> 00:10:22,639 a fact you know it might be factually 256 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:24,500 correct but it's actually really hard to 257 00:10:27,610 --> 00:10:25,850 get everything else in the story to work 258 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:27,620 around that so it's not even that 259 00:10:32,199 --> 00:10:28,910 they're trying to hide it they're just 260 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:32,209 trying to get the story to move and you 261 00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:33,560 know I know that I've actually talked to 262 00:10:37,689 --> 00:10:35,750 people who have seen CSI and complain of 263 00:10:40,179 --> 00:10:37,699 DNA results come back so quickly it's 264 00:10:41,949 --> 00:10:40,189 because nobody wants to wait two weeks 265 00:10:46,030 --> 00:10:41,959 for DNA results to come back you've got 266 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:46,040 to get on with the story an extreme 267 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:47,630 example that it's the kind of thing you 268 00:10:52,389 --> 00:10:50,720 run into do you do you think the 269 00:10:55,809 --> 00:10:52,399 popularity now of this sort of thing 270 00:10:57,850 --> 00:10:55,819 this sort of new science content could 271 00:10:59,949 --> 00:10:57,860 be traced back to the boom in such 272 00:11:02,799 --> 00:10:59,959 programs as CSI and all these wonderful 273 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:02,809 medical investigating forensic type 274 00:11:05,570 --> 00:11:03,240 program 275 00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:05,580 well certainly medical has always been a 276 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:07,230 big deal dating all the way back to 277 00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:08,850 Marcus well Kobe and people have always 278 00:11:13,699 --> 00:11:11,640 loved detective stories the brilliance 279 00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:13,709 of CSI is it combined the science of 280 00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:15,680 forensics with a detective story and 281 00:11:20,180 --> 00:11:18,240 that turned out to be just a golden 282 00:11:22,910 --> 00:11:20,190 combination in terms of network gold 283 00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:22,920 ratings gold and now that's now you've 284 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:25,500 got numbers and now you've got bones and 285 00:11:29,420 --> 00:11:26,880 you've got all these procedurals 286 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:29,430 essentially where you can have a set 287 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:31,350 cast of characters that can develop and 288 00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:33,690 grow over various seasons but you also 289 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:35,160 get these nice little standalone 290 00:11:41,449 --> 00:11:38,010 episodes where you solve a crime in an 291 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:41,459 hour and it's just a fantastic you know 292 00:11:46,670 --> 00:11:42,930 for whatever reason it just broadly 293 00:11:48,530 --> 00:11:46,680 appeals to a huge audience that's not 294 00:11:49,970 --> 00:11:48,540 and it's not a bad thing I mean one of 295 00:11:52,910 --> 00:11:49,980 the things I made a point in my blog 296 00:11:54,860 --> 00:11:52,920 post is you know it's actually good news 297 00:11:58,190 --> 00:11:54,870 that there is now a demand for these 298 00:11:59,690 --> 00:11:58,200 sort of things I think so it's also I 299 00:12:01,550 --> 00:11:59,700 can't help thinking it's interesting at 300 00:12:04,010 --> 00:12:01,560 roughly the same time we've got the 301 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:04,020 growth than the sprouting of these sort 302 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:06,690 of CSI crime investigation type programs 303 00:12:13,130 --> 00:12:10,260 using well albeit a little bit stretched 304 00:12:15,949 --> 00:12:13,140 to the imagination scientific forensic 305 00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:15,959 work we've also had a couple of a gaggle 306 00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:18,300 of these psychic detective shows oh 307 00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:21,660 right right although you've also got 308 00:12:25,579 --> 00:12:23,640 things like psych which is a fake you 309 00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,589 know psychic detective show yeah and 310 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:27,120 you've got the mentalist who's a fake 311 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:29,550 psychic detective who openly us a fake 312 00:12:34,910 --> 00:12:32,880 psychic um but you know I think that if 313 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:34,920 you look at the ratings though I think 314 00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:37,890 you actually find that if you if you get 315 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:39,240 all the radiance of like the mentalist 316 00:12:42,769 --> 00:12:41,100 and CSI and numbers and all those they 317 00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:42,779 dwarf the other ones they dwarf the 318 00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:45,060 ghost whisperer for example but it's 319 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:47,100 that it's that same formula I mean 320 00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:49,230 notice that they just people love the 321 00:12:55,340 --> 00:12:51,709 procedural they love solving a mystery 322 00:12:57,410 --> 00:12:55,350 yeah absolutely I certainly have when 323 00:12:59,690 --> 00:12:57,420 those shows are good i love to watch 324 00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:59,700 them too now i have actually tried to 325 00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:01,260 sit down and watch a couple of episodes 326 00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,880 of medium I've never seen the ghost 327 00:13:07,340 --> 00:13:04,320 whisperer although it is shown here in 328 00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:07,350 Australia and you know what I have to 329 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:09,240 admit a big fail I couldn't get through 330 00:13:13,579 --> 00:13:11,610 it I I think I don't think I've ever 331 00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:13,589 seen an episode of medium I've seen a 332 00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:15,630 caught bits and pieces of the ghost 333 00:13:21,010 --> 00:13:16,430 whisperer 334 00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:21,020 yes numbers comes on right after it is 335 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:23,480 really bizarre skewed kind of network 336 00:13:30,340 --> 00:13:27,710 you know logic is now and you know it's 337 00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:30,350 not you know it it's not that people are 338 00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:32,240 in there in love with the story you know 339 00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:33,830 and I think sometimes we mistake the 340 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:35,630 fact that you know they love the story 341 00:13:39,370 --> 00:13:37,310 and therefore that means that they you 342 00:13:40,780 --> 00:13:39,380 know they won't take a skeptical view 343 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:40,790 point give them a wonderful character 344 00:13:44,769 --> 00:13:42,410 and a great story and get them invested 345 00:13:46,540 --> 00:13:44,779 in that and they'll accept it and I 346 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:46,550 think that Mentalist and CSI and these 347 00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:49,130 other shows prove that I mean it's 348 00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:50,720 really it's really about the powerful 349 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:52,520 story I don't think medium is actually 350 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:54,290 even a big hit ratings wise I mean it's 351 00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:56,690 one of those shows that does okay in it 352 00:14:00,370 --> 00:13:58,970 you know that they keep it going but it 353 00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:00,380 certainly is not the kind of show that 354 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:02,240 causes a lot of buzz that you it's not 355 00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:03,680 one of their big moneymakers let's put 356 00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:06,350 it that way it's interesting to know 357 00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:08,480 that a lot of people do consider what 358 00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:11,209 they see on programs like CSI and on the 359 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:13,190 flip side programs like medium is being 360 00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:15,290 more or less like a mini documentary I 361 00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,240 know and I find that really interesting 362 00:14:24,699 --> 00:14:19,040 because I I there someone told me the 363 00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:24,709 story that some some night government 364 00:14:28,540 --> 00:14:26,750 agency approached that the producers of 365 00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:28,550 24 basically saying that they were 366 00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:30,350 getting recruits who were thinking that 367 00:14:36,510 --> 00:14:32,660 kiefer sutherland's characters approach 368 00:14:39,190 --> 00:14:36,520 to interrogation was somehow okay yeah 369 00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:39,200 all the ways that he violates rules and 370 00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:40,700 they were asking him to basically could 371 00:14:45,610 --> 00:14:43,760 you change the depiction of this and you 372 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:45,620 know okay on the one hand I understand 373 00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:46,910 but on the other kind of going maybe 374 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,380 what you should be emphasizing to your 375 00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:49,760 recruits is that the difference between 376 00:14:53,710 --> 00:14:51,980 fiction and reality and that this is a 377 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:53,720 show and it's entertainment it's 378 00:14:57,850 --> 00:14:55,670 supposed to be fun and yes we want it to 379 00:15:00,670 --> 00:14:57,860 be believable and have some realistic 380 00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:00,680 elements in it to add plausibility but 381 00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,120 we never lose sight of the fact that 382 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:03,920 it's fiction and if some people haven't 383 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:06,490 that's a bigger problem than the TV show 384 00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:09,290 well it's actually it's a very old story 385 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:13,700 because I remember hearing and this is a 386 00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:15,290 document it actually really happened 387 00:15:19,510 --> 00:15:17,060 it's documented that in the days when 388 00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:19,520 Gilligan's Island was shown the US Coast 389 00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:21,500 Guard were getting mailed to them saying 390 00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:23,060 why are you looking for these people I 391 00:15:26,829 --> 00:15:25,040 know and Marcus Welby used to get like 392 00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:26,839 you know letters from people asking for 393 00:15:30,669 --> 00:15:28,819 medical advice 394 00:15:32,349 --> 00:15:30,679 seriously I mean they thought he was 395 00:15:36,279 --> 00:15:32,359 with and what can you do with those 396 00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:36,289 people I don't know she's like okay 397 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:37,519 Jennifer that that's really interesting 398 00:15:41,139 --> 00:15:39,289 and of course you realize I have a 399 00:15:42,819 --> 00:15:41,149 sneaking interest in this sort of thing 400 00:15:44,829 --> 00:15:42,829 that movies and the TV from my 401 00:15:47,109 --> 00:15:44,839 experience but I'll hand you over now to 402 00:15:50,319 --> 00:15:47,119 Kylie who's going to ask you some other 403 00:15:52,539 --> 00:15:50,329 questions Kylie hello Jennifer your 404 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:52,549 website says that you stumbled into 405 00:15:56,289 --> 00:15:54,889 writing about science and bone to 406 00:15:58,059 --> 00:15:56,299 appreciate it after working on a 407 00:16:00,549 --> 00:15:58,069 graduate degree in literature now I'm 408 00:16:01,779 --> 00:16:00,559 why did you begin this journey well you 409 00:16:03,369 --> 00:16:01,789 know it's interesting I never finished 410 00:16:06,189 --> 00:16:03,379 that graduate degree in literature i 411 00:16:09,219 --> 00:16:06,199 started to basically get a masters 412 00:16:11,409 --> 00:16:09,229 degree and sia that really wasn't for me 413 00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,419 and kind of lost direction a little bit 414 00:16:15,549 --> 00:16:13,519 and sometimes when you lose direction in 415 00:16:18,489 --> 00:16:15,559 that really fundamental way you end up 416 00:16:20,019 --> 00:16:18,499 finding yourself and that's kind of what 417 00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:20,029 happened i ended up working for a 418 00:16:24,729 --> 00:16:22,160 physics organization called the american 419 00:16:26,259 --> 00:16:24,739 physical society and i had never taken 420 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:26,269 physics in high school in fact i had 421 00:16:30,549 --> 00:16:28,910 probably avoided it even though i'd 422 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:30,559 always done well in science and things 423 00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:31,910 like that and always had a certain 424 00:16:38,169 --> 00:16:34,639 amount of a rational view point to life 425 00:16:41,079 --> 00:16:38,179 I certainly had not had any kind of 426 00:16:42,729 --> 00:16:41,089 scientific background and just by you 427 00:16:43,929 --> 00:16:42,739 know hanging out with physicists and 428 00:16:45,249 --> 00:16:43,939 interviewing them and writing about 429 00:16:47,649 --> 00:16:45,259 their work and this sort of thing and 430 00:16:50,229 --> 00:16:47,659 had a profound change and impact on on 431 00:16:51,999 --> 00:16:50,239 my life and I end up becoming a science 432 00:16:53,739 --> 00:16:52,009 writer of all things and if you had 433 00:16:54,849 --> 00:16:53,749 asked me at the age of 18 that I would 434 00:16:56,649 --> 00:16:54,859 be a science writer would have laughed 435 00:16:59,349 --> 00:16:56,659 at you but in fact it turned out to be 436 00:17:01,210 --> 00:16:59,359 the perfect thing did people pick up on 437 00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:01,220 your enthusiasm or were there many 438 00:17:04,689 --> 00:17:02,929 people who stood back and said what she 439 00:17:06,639 --> 00:17:04,699 do even our turn there's a science 440 00:17:08,649 --> 00:17:06,649 communication well you know it's really 441 00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:08,659 funny that I only get that really from 442 00:17:13,419 --> 00:17:11,779 the occasional scientist believe it or 443 00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:13,429 not I don't get it from other people 444 00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:15,620 what I get from other you get the usual 445 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:17,240 you must be really smart I could never 446 00:17:21,309 --> 00:17:19,490 understand that and that always makes me 447 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:21,319 angry because I think you know you're 448 00:17:24,999 --> 00:17:22,610 selling yourself short you can't 449 00:17:26,499 --> 00:17:25,009 understand it you just need to find a 450 00:17:27,999 --> 00:17:26,509 good communicator who can explain the 451 00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:28,009 concepts to you and you can understand 452 00:17:34,990 --> 00:17:30,940 it anyone can because I'm not a genius 453 00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:35,000 and when my first book came out I think 454 00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,700 that I would occasionally get the odd 455 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,919 scientists basically saying how dare you 456 00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,840 speak for SCIENCE&U English major scum 457 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,559 essentially 458 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:44,960 that's I only scientists should be 459 00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:47,330 talking about science and of course you 460 00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,220 know that those people who say those 461 00:17:54,129 --> 00:17:51,200 sorts of things are rarities they are 462 00:17:56,049 --> 00:17:54,139 not a representative of the field at all 463 00:17:57,489 --> 00:17:56,059 and I was certainly had been around 464 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:57,499 scientists enough by then to know that 465 00:18:00,779 --> 00:17:59,330 those those were just crazy people so I 466 00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:00,789 was able to kind of like block that out 467 00:18:05,860 --> 00:18:03,940 but ugh you get that sometimes and 468 00:18:08,259 --> 00:18:05,870 certainly now we can see the 469 00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:08,269 intersection between science literature 470 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:11,360 growing even more and more right but at 471 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,710 the time I think that really wasn't 472 00:18:16,749 --> 00:18:14,480 quite that things were very much still 473 00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:16,759 sex segregated and one of the reasons I 474 00:18:21,340 --> 00:18:18,860 wrote that first book and it has a lot 475 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:21,350 of broad cultural references in terms of 476 00:18:25,869 --> 00:18:23,230 literature and theatre and art and 477 00:18:27,489 --> 00:18:25,879 history and all these various things and 478 00:18:29,739 --> 00:18:27,499 it was the science in with all of that 479 00:18:31,629 --> 00:18:29,749 because I felt that science had kind of 480 00:18:33,789 --> 00:18:31,639 been unjustly separated from the rest of 481 00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,799 culture there's our broader culture than 482 00:18:37,419 --> 00:18:35,600 their science way over in left field and 483 00:18:39,369 --> 00:18:37,429 only smart people get to do science and 484 00:18:41,109 --> 00:18:39,379 I that there's there's something just 485 00:18:44,739 --> 00:18:41,119 intrinsically wrong to meet with that 486 00:18:46,989 --> 00:18:44,749 mindset we can see the interchange 487 00:18:49,419 --> 00:18:46,999 between science literature pop culture 488 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:49,429 within your popular blog cocktail party 489 00:18:52,899 --> 00:18:51,289 physics which has physics with the twist 490 00:18:54,609 --> 00:18:52,909 and that's been going for the last two 491 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:54,619 years or so hasn't it actually even 492 00:18:59,379 --> 00:18:56,090 longer going a little over three years 493 00:19:01,299 --> 00:18:59,389 yes i know i know three years now and it 494 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:01,309 started because again the first book 495 00:19:03,879 --> 00:19:02,809 people asked me to describe it at night 496 00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:03,889 kind of it well it's kind of cocktail 497 00:19:08,139 --> 00:19:05,929 party physics it's like it's not really 498 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:08,149 deep and you know there are certain 499 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:11,090 errors of omission you might say what my 500 00:19:14,289 --> 00:19:12,710 friend Chad ors will call is lying to 501 00:19:16,239 --> 00:19:14,299 children where you just choose to omit 502 00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:16,249 certain complicating factors and you 503 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:17,840 just tell entertaining stories and weave 504 00:19:22,389 --> 00:19:20,210 the science in and it's a way of getting 505 00:19:24,249 --> 00:19:22,399 people familiar and interested in what 506 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:24,259 is normally a kind of a scary subject 507 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:27,049 for them I've noticed that there's quite 508 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:29,570 a few additional bloggers and they all 509 00:19:33,879 --> 00:19:31,369 help add to the mixture of the cocktail 510 00:19:36,460 --> 00:19:33,889 party no I got nish initially it was a 511 00:19:37,749 --> 00:19:36,470 solo blog and then last fall when I when 512 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:37,759 I was getting ready to take on the 513 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:39,320 position at the exchange with the 514 00:19:42,999 --> 00:19:40,970 National Academy I realized that I 515 00:19:44,739 --> 00:19:43,009 really did need decide to make it a 516 00:19:46,509 --> 00:19:44,749 really an actual cocktail party and get 517 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:46,519 different voices in and I think that 518 00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:47,960 it's been a phenomenal decision they've 519 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:51,590 been great and you really attend 520 00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,210 conferences with other scientists and 521 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:55,039 science plugins such as blogging heads 522 00:19:58,389 --> 00:19:56,330 TV how 523 00:20:00,009 --> 00:19:58,399 important do you think the networking is 524 00:20:01,899 --> 00:20:00,019 with fellow science writers how much 525 00:20:03,970 --> 00:20:01,909 does it add to the enjoyment of 526 00:20:05,769 --> 00:20:03,980 communicating what adds it what 527 00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:05,779 enjoyment adds to the enjoyment I think 528 00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:07,580 more than anything I mean it's just 529 00:20:11,139 --> 00:20:09,919 we're in a hard feel particularly in 530 00:20:12,610 --> 00:20:11,149 this day and age where we're not sure 531 00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:12,620 where print is going we don't have to 532 00:20:16,299 --> 00:20:13,940 share what our jobs are going to be in 533 00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,309 10 years I mean I think science writing 534 00:20:20,139 --> 00:20:18,559 is going to reinvent itself but I'm 535 00:20:22,779 --> 00:20:20,149 certainly not going to predict where 536 00:20:24,399 --> 00:20:22,789 it's going to go so these sorts of 537 00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,409 interactions with our science writers 538 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:26,000 are very important I mean I want to know 539 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,890 my colleagues and invariably they're all 540 00:20:30,909 --> 00:20:29,840 very supportive i mean people sometimes 541 00:20:32,289 --> 00:20:30,919 get this idea that we're all very 542 00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:32,299 competitive with each other but I've 543 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:34,700 never found that to be the case and then 544 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:36,610 I've always been incredibly supportive 545 00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:40,190 and recently you gave blog readers the 546 00:20:43,389 --> 00:20:41,990 teaser about book writing are you able 547 00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:43,399 to tell us much about the book that's in 548 00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:46,190 the ranking uh yeah actually it's I'm 549 00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:48,620 kind of doing for calculus what I did 550 00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:50,539 for physics initially except this is a 551 00:20:53,799 --> 00:20:52,070 little bit more the blog voice it's more 552 00:20:58,029 --> 00:20:53,809 personal so it's a book about learning 553 00:21:00,730 --> 00:20:58,039 calculus in my 40s essentially oh yeah 554 00:21:02,139 --> 00:21:00,740 it's called dangerous curves how I 555 00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:02,149 learned to stop worrying and love the 556 00:21:08,529 --> 00:21:06,769 calculus so um so that's I'm basically 557 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:08,539 doing things like going to Vegas and 558 00:21:12,610 --> 00:21:10,850 going to Disneyland and putting calculus 559 00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:12,620 back into the real world and saying you 560 00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,750 know there's actually you know when you 561 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:17,120 get doused on Splash Mountain and your 562 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:19,130 clothes dry off the rate at which they 563 00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:21,500 dry off forms an exponential decay curve 564 00:21:25,299 --> 00:21:23,929 you know and that's calculus and there's 565 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:25,309 a problem that you can do to figure that 566 00:21:29,919 --> 00:21:27,740 out have you noticed that there's been a 567 00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:29,929 recent trend towards books investigating 568 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:32,600 max I recall danica mckellar for example 569 00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:35,210 is another author who has begun in 570 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:37,700 getting mats into the mainstream right 571 00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:39,769 and Danica is wonderful because she's 572 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:40,880 good at math and she's this really 573 00:21:44,399 --> 00:21:42,950 pretty young woman who was an actress so 574 00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:44,409 she's already well known to people 575 00:21:48,879 --> 00:21:46,820 certainly the television show numbers I 576 00:21:51,549 --> 00:21:48,889 think helped I mean I think numbers does 577 00:21:53,769 --> 00:21:51,559 a fantastic job of showing how you know 578 00:21:56,049 --> 00:21:53,779 their tagline is we all use math every 579 00:21:57,610 --> 00:21:56,059 day and it's interesting because my 580 00:21:59,769 --> 00:21:57,620 husband and I were house-hunting earlier 581 00:22:01,600 --> 00:21:59,779 this year and it occurred to me i mean 582 00:22:03,639 --> 00:22:01,610 that's going that is going to be in the 583 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:03,649 book that experience because it occurred 584 00:22:08,529 --> 00:22:05,750 to me that what we were doing in the 585 00:22:10,269 --> 00:22:08,539 process of choosing a house was a multi 586 00:22:12,219 --> 00:22:10,279 variable optimization problem 587 00:22:13,509 --> 00:22:12,229 where we had all these variables of 588 00:22:15,549 --> 00:22:13,519 things we wanted in a house and we 589 00:22:17,019 --> 00:22:15,559 weren't going to get all of them there's 590 00:22:18,249 --> 00:22:17,029 no such thing as the perfect house that 591 00:22:20,589 --> 00:22:18,259 we had to figure out what the optimal 592 00:22:22,690 --> 00:22:20,599 combination was and I think conceptually 593 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:22,700 we all do this whenever we comparison 594 00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:25,369 shop on anything and it never occurs to 595 00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:27,469 us this is the fund of the concept 596 00:22:31,209 --> 00:22:29,809 behind a basic calculus problem but it 597 00:22:32,619 --> 00:22:31,219 is and then you just have to figure out 598 00:22:35,589 --> 00:22:32,629 a way to quantify it and then you've got 599 00:22:37,989 --> 00:22:35,599 the math yeah there'll be a couple blog 600 00:22:39,399 --> 00:22:37,999 posts up over the summer as I'm kind of 601 00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,409 working through the kings of the final 602 00:22:43,509 --> 00:22:41,840 manuscript it takes a long time once you 603 00:22:45,339 --> 00:22:43,519 turn the manuscript in and that'll be 604 00:22:47,589 --> 00:22:45,349 I'll turn it in and September and how 605 00:22:49,269 --> 00:22:47,599 they come out sometime in 2010 but I 606 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:49,279 will be I mean watch the blog I'll be 607 00:22:53,109 --> 00:22:50,690 bubbly basically pushing it on the blog 608 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:53,119 as we get closer thank you very much for 609 00:22:56,289 --> 00:22:54,710 that Jennifer it's wonderful to hear 610 00:22:58,570 --> 00:22:56,299 about the progress of your book that I'm 611 00:23:01,149 --> 00:22:58,580 certain people be looking out for and I 612 00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:01,159 really enjoy your blog site at cocktail 613 00:23:05,019 --> 00:23:02,960 party physics and I'm really very 614 00:23:07,269 --> 00:23:05,029 envious of Richard Saunders he'll be 615 00:23:08,349 --> 00:23:07,279 hearing you present at ten seven telling 616 00:23:11,259 --> 00:23:08,359 us all about the science and 617 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:11,269 entertainment exchange well thank you 618 00:23:15,159 --> 00:23:13,369 Kylie and thank you to Jennifer for that 619 00:23:17,259 --> 00:23:15,169 wonderful interview alright well thanks 620 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:17,269 for having me I appreciate it bye now 621 00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:35,820 hi I'm Jason and I'm Andrew from the 622 00:23:40,170 --> 00:23:37,390 nonsense podcast bringing you a 623 00:23:41,970 --> 00:23:40,180 skeptical overview of news religion and 624 00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:41,980 all forms of pseudoscience we're 625 00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:43,780 defending science and reason against the 626 00:23:47,130 --> 00:23:45,310 onslaught of medical and spiritual 627 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:47,140 nonsense all week we are busy 628 00:23:51,870 --> 00:23:49,210 researching and debunking pseudoscience 629 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:51,880 but on the seventh day we listened to 630 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:53,770 the skeptic zone check us out at 631 00:24:04,410 --> 00:23:56,950 nonsense podcast libsyn com or search 632 00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:04,420 for the nonsense podcast on iTunes now 633 00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:07,180 it's time for dr. Rachel reports with 634 00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:13,039 hello everyone and welcome to dr. Reggie 635 00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:15,620 reports a bumper episode this week 636 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:18,360 homeopathy gets a slap down and the 637 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,740 death of a toddler under tragic 638 00:24:25,370 --> 00:24:22,080 circumstances at an alternative medicine 639 00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:25,380 clinic but we kick off with some good 640 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:27,480 news about consumer protection in 641 00:24:32,539 --> 00:24:30,570 Australia this is an alternative 642 00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:32,549 medicine smackdown which comes to you 643 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:34,260 courtesy of a skeptical colleague 644 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:37,049 Michael who submitted a complaint about 645 00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:39,570 a homeopathy website to our government 646 00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:42,539 regulator several months ago this 647 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:45,390 website called arnica montana was 648 00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:47,370 spruiking all manner of dubious products 649 00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:51,000 and making equally dubious claims the 650 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:53,100 company has websites in the UK and 651 00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:55,260 Australia and sells homeopathic 652 00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:58,080 first-aid kids homeopathic remedies for 653 00:25:03,049 --> 00:25:00,720 emergencies makes claims that homeopathy 654 00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,059 is useful for serious health conditions 655 00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:06,000 and also toes the anti-vaccine in 656 00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:08,070 articles promoting the Australian 657 00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:10,380 vaccination network and bragging about 658 00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:13,340 refusing the whooping cough vaccine 659 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:15,480 Michael's complains to the government 660 00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:17,730 body were extensive but essentially 661 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:19,740 challenged dubious claims made by the 662 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:22,289 company and this week he was advised 663 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:24,710 that all his complaints were upheld and 664 00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:27,450 as a result the website has been ordered 665 00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:32,159 to publish an online retraction regular 666 00:25:36,649 --> 00:25:34,020 listens to the zone may remember I 667 00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:36,659 called arnica montana out back in 668 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:38,940 February just after the victorian 669 00:25:43,370 --> 00:25:41,490 bushfires after a listener alerted me to 670 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:43,380 a passage on their website which said 671 00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:46,350 the following in light of recent events 672 00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,299 in Bali and the bush fires in the 673 00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:50,880 eastern states of Australia information 674 00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:52,500 about the use of homeopathy by the 675 00:25:58,250 --> 00:25:54,600 ordinary person is knowledge that should 676 00:26:01,220 --> 00:25:58,260 be shared in fact this particular claim 677 00:26:04,399 --> 00:26:01,230 was disputed by Michael and upheld by 678 00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:04,409 the panel they also upheld complaints 679 00:26:08,269 --> 00:26:05,640 pertaining to breaches of the 680 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:08,279 advertising code including that the 681 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:10,950 advertising or website unlawfully made 682 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:12,570 claims that the products could have 683 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:14,970 therapeutic benefits for serious health 684 00:26:20,389 --> 00:26:17,450 conditions including cancer childbirth 685 00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:20,399 emergencies the severe burns previously 686 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:23,520 referred to scald traumatic shock bird 687 00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:24,210 flu 688 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:27,900 sars postpartum hemorrhage depression 689 00:26:33,050 --> 00:26:31,170 brain tumors convulsions macular 690 00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,060 degeneration and other serious 691 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:35,760 conditions the report from the 692 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:37,650 government panel went on to say that 693 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:39,690 they found claims made in the 694 00:26:43,850 --> 00:26:41,970 advertisement were misleading were 695 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:43,860 likely to lead to consumers self 696 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:46,800 diagnosing and inappropriately treating 697 00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:50,330 serious diseases and aroused unrealistic 698 00:26:56,510 --> 00:26:52,740 expectations of the effectiveness of the 699 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:56,520 products the advertiser was given an 700 00:27:01,220 --> 00:26:58,770 opportunity to respond to the criticisms 701 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:01,230 and rejected the allegation that there 702 00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:03,510 was quote anything deceptive or 703 00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:05,940 misleading unquote in the advertisement 704 00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:09,270 or website the advertiser claimed that 705 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:12,270 the website was quote intended to be an 706 00:27:16,550 --> 00:27:14,490 information website to educate the 707 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:16,560 public about the use of homeopathic 708 00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:20,310 remedies but the panel found that the 709 00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:22,020 website breached sections of the 710 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:23,940 advertising code which prohibit 711 00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:26,810 advertisements for products that quote 712 00:27:32,390 --> 00:27:29,550 abuse the trust or exploit the knowledge 713 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:32,400 of consumers and was likely to arouse 714 00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:35,250 unwarranted and unrealistic expectations 715 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:39,900 of product effectiveness the panel also 716 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:42,510 cited the fact that no persuasive 717 00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:44,250 evidence was provided that the 718 00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,350 advertised products could have benefits 719 00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:48,000 in relation to the wide range of 720 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:52,080 conditions referred to in response to 721 00:27:57,740 --> 00:27:54,590 this the advertiser said that quote 722 00:28:00,200 --> 00:27:57,750 controlled trials cannot be used for 723 00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:00,210 homeopathy but there is a mass of 724 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:04,320 unpublished evidence indeed the website 725 00:28:09,460 --> 00:28:06,810 is littered with testimonials but the 726 00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:09,470 panel also called these into question 727 00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:11,910 because according to the advertising 728 00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:14,400 code testimonials quote must be 729 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:17,580 documented genuine not misleading and 730 00:28:24,620 --> 00:28:21,930 illustrate typical cases only as an 731 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:24,630 example of a breach of this section the 732 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:26,730 panel used this testimonial as an 733 00:28:34,610 --> 00:28:31,170 example quote the calendula cream I make 734 00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:34,620 is specific to cancer skin keratosis and 735 00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:37,620 I have successfully treated many of 736 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:40,950 and established melanomas by using the 737 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:43,170 sage cream at night and the calendula 738 00:28:51,049 --> 00:28:48,090 during the day overall Michael received 739 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:51,059 nine pages of Correspondence and I waded 740 00:28:56,060 --> 00:28:53,490 through all of it which I'm very glad i 741 00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:56,070 did because buried deep in the text I 742 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:00,000 came across this the panel noted that 743 00:29:05,420 --> 00:29:01,890 the advertisement or website breached 744 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:05,430 section 4 part 5 of the code which 745 00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:08,370 states by implying that other 746 00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:11,400 therapeutic goods namely vaccines and 747 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:15,750 sunscreens could be harmful I can only 748 00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:18,809 assume that this is based on references 749 00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:21,809 on embedded blog posts and new sections 750 00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:23,940 on the website that refer to the 751 00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:26,460 Australian vaccination Network Merrill 752 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:29,280 dory and include misinformation about 753 00:29:35,060 --> 00:29:32,610 vaccinations this is indeed a very 754 00:29:36,530 --> 00:29:35,070 interesting piece of legislation and one 755 00:29:41,570 --> 00:29:36,540 that I will file away for future 756 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:41,580 reference also interestingly the panel 757 00:29:47,419 --> 00:29:44,130 deemed the entire arnica montana website 758 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:47,429 to be an advertisement according to the 759 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:49,890 code and advertisement is defined as 760 00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:53,730 quote to include any statement pictorial 761 00:29:58,910 --> 00:29:56,640 representation or design however made 762 00:30:02,030 --> 00:29:58,920 that is intended whether directly or 763 00:30:06,110 --> 00:30:02,040 indirectly to promote the use or supply 764 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:06,120 of goods since the website offered a 765 00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:08,460 range of products for sale the panel was 766 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:10,140 satisfied it constituted an 767 00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:14,070 advertisement for therapeutic goods also 768 00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:15,809 interestingly is that the complaint 769 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:18,540 summary cites the subject matter of the 770 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:21,210 complaint as a website advertisement and 771 00:30:26,990 --> 00:30:24,090 the sanctions as withdrawal of 772 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:27,000 advertisement thus stating that the 773 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:30,690 entire website is to be withdrawn but if 774 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:33,360 you go to the website now at arnica 775 00:30:39,169 --> 00:30:36,570 montana Comte you you will find the 776 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:39,179 published retraction for sure but the 777 00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:41,250 remainder of the website still functions 778 00:30:47,690 --> 00:30:44,670 as normal I wonder when and if we will 779 00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:47,700 see the entire website removed not a 780 00:30:54,589 --> 00:30:51,769 very happy homeopathy week for some 781 00:30:56,899 --> 00:30:54,599 next is the tragic story of the death of 782 00:31:00,619 --> 00:30:56,909 a toddler who was crushed by a massage 783 00:31:02,899 --> 00:31:00,629 table in Adelaide what makes this story 784 00:31:05,719 --> 00:31:02,909 even more sad is that the death occurred 785 00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:05,729 at the favero clinic and Adelaide which 786 00:31:10,009 --> 00:31:07,679 is the home of Elvira brunt an 787 00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:10,019 alternative therapists who claims to be 788 00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:13,799 able to cure cancer with massage more on 789 00:31:18,919 --> 00:31:16,679 this in a moment but reports surrounding 790 00:31:21,289 --> 00:31:18,929 the death say the 18 month old girl was 791 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,299 crushed to death by a massage table 792 00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:24,080 while her mother was being treated a 793 00:31:30,619 --> 00:31:27,840 police inspector said quote a young 18 794 00:31:32,719 --> 00:31:30,629 month old child a girl has died as a 795 00:31:35,629 --> 00:31:32,729 result of being trapped in a component 796 00:31:38,769 --> 00:31:35,639 of a massage table the child was under 797 00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,779 the table when it started to be lowered 798 00:31:43,580 --> 00:31:41,039 regular listeners might remember the 799 00:31:45,889 --> 00:31:43,590 favela alternative medicine clinic from 800 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:45,899 a previous doctor a chi when I mentioned 801 00:31:50,269 --> 00:31:47,970 that she had advised the father of a 802 00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:50,279 young girl with leukemia to feed her 803 00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:51,929 Kentucky Fried Chicken to get her 804 00:31:57,469 --> 00:31:55,440 kidneys functioning again a current 805 00:31:59,749 --> 00:31:57,479 parliamentary inquiry in South Australia 806 00:32:02,239 --> 00:31:59,759 had received several submissions from 807 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:02,249 members of the public about the GBS 808 00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:06,210 practices of ms Brandt unfortunately the 809 00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:08,340 parliamentary inquiry has yet to be 810 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:11,369 completed so Elvira brunt is still 811 00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:14,609 practicing on the same day that the 812 00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,220 child died the inquiry into bogus 813 00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,200 unregistered and D registered health 814 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:22,080 practitioners named Elvira brunt as a 815 00:32:26,479 --> 00:32:24,570 person of interest for allegedly 816 00:32:29,539 --> 00:32:26,489 claiming she could cure cancer through 817 00:32:32,509 --> 00:32:29,549 abdominal massage for telling patients 818 00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:32,519 to stop normal treatment and requiring 819 00:32:38,299 --> 00:32:34,769 cash payments for services and not 820 00:32:40,339 --> 00:32:38,309 providing receipts other alternative 821 00:32:43,849 --> 00:32:40,349 therapists named as part of the inquiry 822 00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:43,859 were Elizabeth gold way for allegedly 823 00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:46,440 saying she can cure cancer charging 824 00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:48,059 thousands of dollars for treatment and 825 00:32:54,169 --> 00:32:50,809 not providing receipts to patients 826 00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:54,179 Monica milker was also named for 827 00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:55,830 allegedly claiming she could cure cancer 828 00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:59,279 with injections to kill the worms that 829 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:02,399 were causing the problem and love a mere 830 00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:04,770 batelco who allegedly 831 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:07,500 jected a patient to vaginal blowing with 832 00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:10,110 an ozone therapy machine saying it 833 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:14,310 offered a 50-percent cure for cancer the 834 00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:16,290 member of parliament ian hunter who 835 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:19,320 tabled the report said quote while some 836 00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:21,170 practitioners may be delusional 837 00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:23,220 convinced that they are able to cure 838 00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:25,710 serious medical conditions the evidence 839 00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:27,600 presented to the committee suggested 840 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:29,940 that others are driven by greed and in 841 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:34,050 some cases sexual gratification he 842 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:36,570 continued the committee heard shocking 843 00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:38,730 stories from people who said their loved 844 00:33:43,010 --> 00:33:40,590 ones had been exploited when they were 845 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:43,020 at their most vulnerable who were given 846 00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:45,570 false hope and who wasted thousands of 847 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:48,420 dollars on bogus treatments he said the 848 00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:50,130 committee stated that while most 849 00:33:54,830 --> 00:33:52,440 practitioners were ethical proper 850 00:33:58,340 --> 00:33:54,840 regulation monitoring an exposure of 851 00:34:00,590 --> 00:33:58,350 unethical behavior was needed although 852 00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,600 it seems likely that Elvira brunt will 853 00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:02,640 be banned from practicing eventually it 854 00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:04,950 will be too little too late for many 855 00:34:12,110 --> 00:34:09,720 including now an 18 month old girl to 856 00:34:14,930 --> 00:34:12,120 find the links for today's stories head 857 00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:14,940 to skeptics own TV and follow the links 858 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:17,730 to the Zoners blog you can also check 859 00:34:24,110 --> 00:34:20,310 out my other blog at skeptics book calm 860 00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:24,120 and until next time this has been dr. HG 861 00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:38,790 so that's why you can't eat her I was 862 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:40,990 just talking to the student till now 863 00:34:44,850 --> 00:34:41,950 look I'm supposed to tell you about 864 00:34:48,570 --> 00:34:44,860 something the cosmic Tea Party a new 865 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:48,580 science podcast podcast day who's it at 866 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:49,930 any rate it's about science and 867 00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:52,690 mathematics sounds rather dull oh hang 868 00:34:57,630 --> 00:34:56,020 on I open it it says here not done so 869 00:35:01,350 --> 00:34:57,640 there you have it the cosmic Tea Party 870 00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:01,360 podcast www cosmic Tea Party or or 871 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:07,420 search for them on itunes join us now 872 00:35:17,970 --> 00:35:10,450 for drinking skeptically in the think 873 00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:17,980 tank well welcome to the thing thank 874 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:23,830 everybody cheers oh this is going to 875 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:25,450 take a while this is what's a glasses 876 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:28,510 here there's lots of alcohol is thank 877 00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:31,060 you petitions can work out how many 878 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:34,420 combinations I look we have to thank 879 00:35:38,070 --> 00:35:36,130 sincerely we have to thank listener 880 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:38,080 Darren Snodgrass who actually sent us 881 00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,210 money for a round of drinks in fact more 882 00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:42,400 than enough for a round of drinks Darren 883 00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:45,760 well I approve of this is more guarantee 884 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:51,700 5,000 of you a week a week a week if 885 00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:54,370 you're ever in Sydney down please join 886 00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:55,300 us for the think tank there's 887 00:36:03,500 --> 00:35:58,330 marvelously generous of you and will be 888 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:03,510 thinking to your health oh that's good 889 00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:06,370 that's very nice well welcome to the 890 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,400 think tank now we have our regular line 891 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:11,200 up with the think tank that tonight more 892 00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:14,170 or less dr. H E hello Richard hello dr. 893 00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:16,420 Reggie thank you for dr. Reggie reports 894 00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:18,520 as ever yeah welcome I know you get a 895 00:36:23,130 --> 00:36:21,040 lot of fans now I do apparently you're 896 00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:23,140 doing yeah and I'm getting busier and 897 00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:25,540 busier as a matter of fact you are you 898 00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:27,430 poor thing her up half the night working 899 00:36:31,650 --> 00:36:29,380 on this day I'm actually yeah but it's 900 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:31,660 worth it and easily and somebody else is 901 00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:33,130 up half the night I don't know what he's 902 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:35,640 doing its Dave the happy singer 903 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:39,250 a lot of time cuz I'm in their bank is 904 00:36:45,630 --> 00:36:43,000 now is it I thought those owners tank is 905 00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:45,640 now the alcohol is involved other people 906 00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:47,220 listen to this segment of tankers their 907 00:36:53,940 --> 00:36:50,830 function tankers no I'll buy that and we 908 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:53,950 have visiting us once again its job been 909 00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:56,290 home oh hello Joe hi Richard thank you 910 00:37:00,120 --> 00:36:57,760 for your contribution last week's 911 00:37:02,730 --> 00:37:00,130 episode where you read your report from 912 00:37:05,130 --> 00:37:02,740 mind-body wallet last week I've lost 913 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:05,140 track of time already come a little bit 914 00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:06,910 closer to a little bit closer we also 915 00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:09,220 have joining us tonight um chief 916 00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:10,510 investigator from the Australian 917 00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:12,609 skeptics however it seems Ian Bryce 918 00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,280 hello great that you could come along 919 00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,200 and I'm have it took chat to you in a 920 00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:19,119 moment being a chief investigator is an 921 00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:21,910 interesting job very interesting and 922 00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:23,950 somebody's got their phone on I'll Dave 923 00:37:28,260 --> 00:37:26,680 the happy singer it's going off as going 924 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:28,270 off I was switching it off now it's gone 925 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:30,130 that annoys your head was Dave the happy 926 00:37:34,109 --> 00:37:31,570 singer switching off his phone as I 927 00:37:36,570 --> 00:37:34,119 reach for mine to switch it off to just 928 00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:36,580 so it doesn't go up and last but 929 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,520 certainly not least we have Diane hello 930 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:41,680 Diane I are you Richard I'm very well 931 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:43,570 good to see you again thank you good to 932 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:47,230 see you too thank you I Diane of course 933 00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:50,290 joined with me a few weeks ago now when 934 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:52,270 we went to the parents babies and 935 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:55,170 pregnancy Expo yes and we uncovered 936 00:37:59,820 --> 00:37:57,010 chiropractors saying some pretty silly 937 00:38:03,840 --> 00:37:59,830 things that's right we did indeed all 938 00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:03,850 right now Darren who so kindly shouted 939 00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:05,380 us this wonderful round of drinks we 940 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:08,380 have on the table before it would like 941 00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:11,050 to know what are some of the strangest 942 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:13,560 things that we've come across in our 943 00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:15,310 investigations are skeptics and I 944 00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:16,480 thought Ian this might be a good 945 00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:18,550 question for you what are some of the 946 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:20,980 stranger things in the your years of 947 00:38:24,810 --> 00:38:22,530 investigation that you've come across 948 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:24,820 okay well we have lots of boring things 949 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:27,310 like people being able to tell your 950 00:38:32,730 --> 00:38:29,910 personality by holding your jewelry and 951 00:38:35,490 --> 00:38:32,740 for tell your future and read your tea 952 00:38:37,410 --> 00:38:35,500 leaves and predict lotto numbers but 953 00:38:44,099 --> 00:38:37,420 possibly the one that stands out in my 954 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:44,109 mind is the guy who talks to dragons yes 955 00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:45,730 he used to live around sydney and he 956 00:38:51,530 --> 00:38:49,110 believes that the limestone formations 957 00:38:53,420 --> 00:38:51,540 was a sit there in the past by dragons 958 00:38:55,070 --> 00:38:53,430 and some of them are imprints of dragons 959 00:38:57,710 --> 00:38:55,080 who he might have seen some tessellated 960 00:38:59,870 --> 00:38:57,720 pavements this is some natural rocks 961 00:39:01,700 --> 00:38:59,880 with a crisscross pattern on that occurs 962 00:39:04,070 --> 00:39:01,710 sometimes around Australia and he says 963 00:39:07,070 --> 00:39:04,080 their imprints of the scales on dragons 964 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:07,080 where dragons died there thousands of 965 00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:10,290 years ago it's amazing gales scales from 966 00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:14,030 the skin but also he sent me a little 967 00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:19,020 bag of looks to me like Sam stone but 968 00:39:22,430 --> 00:39:20,640 he's had it analyzed in other places and 969 00:39:27,410 --> 00:39:22,440 it's his opinion that this is dragon 970 00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:27,420 poop that's one of my treasured 971 00:39:31,790 --> 00:39:29,460 possessions for the skeptics museum is 972 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:31,800 this claim to bag of dragon poop so I 973 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,330 think that's probably the weirdest so 974 00:39:37,790 --> 00:39:35,160 what are you tested against and to know 975 00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:37,800 it's dragon poke okay don't you have to 976 00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:39,960 have like it you know compound to test 977 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:41,790 it against to compare it to well that 978 00:39:45,830 --> 00:39:43,410 would be the ideal way but you can at 979 00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:45,840 least test it against an assisting 980 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:48,270 sandstone right and if you find its 981 00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:50,430 identical and it sounds probably 982 00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:56,550 sufficient for skeptics anyway hi could 983 00:39:59,480 --> 00:39:58,020 talk two dragons once you know on the 984 00:40:03,650 --> 00:39:59,490 telephone what's called the hotline 985 00:40:07,070 --> 00:40:03,660 anyway disguise this guy claimed didn't 986 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:07,080 get her go see mom if I'm much easier to 987 00:40:12,890 --> 00:40:08,970 talk to dragons up to him by being 988 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:12,900 certain chemical substance so make sushi 989 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:16,230 today and anyone can come to dragons 990 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:18,810 after that so I'm talking to drag I like 991 00:40:24,110 --> 00:40:22,650 that in anything else come to mind well 992 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:24,120 we had a guy in America trying to 993 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:27,090 predict lotto numbers but he claims to 994 00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:29,970 be able to pick one or two numbers out 995 00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:32,220 of a long digit a long sequence of 996 00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:33,990 numbers and if he get me get one or two 997 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:36,870 right out of maybe that the ten digits 998 00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:38,610 that occur in the typical lotto results 999 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:40,020 and he wants to claim a hundred thousand 1000 00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:43,770 dollar prize you think he wouldn't have 1001 00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,380 to work so you wouldn't have see that's 1002 00:40:49,930 --> 00:40:48,000 right if he wouldn't have to but it's a 1003 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:49,940 very interesting question because um I 1004 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:52,290 remember I gave a talk once and somebody 1005 00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:54,210 asked me what was the strangest thing 1006 00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:56,310 I've ever come across and 1007 00:41:00,110 --> 00:40:58,050 it really it depends on how you look at 1008 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:00,120 it they're all pretty strange any any 1009 00:41:04,580 --> 00:41:02,370 claim that defies the laws of physics as 1010 00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:04,590 we know it is it's going to be a strange 1011 00:41:08,660 --> 00:41:06,660 claim to begin with but a lot of people 1012 00:41:10,310 --> 00:41:08,670 think that I that when skeptics go along 1013 00:41:12,830 --> 00:41:10,320 to investigations are and have an 1014 00:41:15,830 --> 00:41:12,840 amazing adventures like like Fox Mulder 1015 00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:15,840 or Indiana Jones you know doing but you 1016 00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:17,190 know you normally turn up to somewhere 1017 00:41:21,590 --> 00:41:19,620 nothing happens honestly that's the 1018 00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:21,600 first anti-climax are disappointing 1019 00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:24,900 except for mind body wallet hmm where 1020 00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:26,280 there's lots of we're everywhere but 1021 00:41:30,290 --> 00:41:27,750 when you're going on an investigation 1022 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:30,300 when you see this Ian it's mostly an 1023 00:41:35,690 --> 00:41:33,450 anti-climax yes indeed we've tested lots 1024 00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:35,700 of so-called people with paranormal 1025 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:39,000 powers and it's quite disappointing when 1026 00:41:41,930 --> 00:41:40,410 we get a result that's totally in 1027 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:41,940 accordance with changed bit of an 1028 00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:44,970 anti-climax yeah yeah remember Richard 1029 00:41:50,060 --> 00:41:46,800 last year we went to look at the Holy 1030 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:50,070 post at could you beach yeah and we 1031 00:41:55,970 --> 00:41:53,370 didn't see anything well it me well the 1032 00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:55,980 Holy post which was peridot Leo was like 1033 00:41:59,660 --> 00:41:57,780 a human figure when the shadow of the 1034 00:42:01,970 --> 00:41:59,670 post was just in the right way and used 1035 00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:01,980 to dinner it was actually it's actually 1036 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:03,630 gone now because there are trees there 1037 00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,820 or a bush or defense has been I was 1038 00:42:10,220 --> 00:42:07,680 equally disappointed I even sorry I 1039 00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:10,230 didn't say anything holy but anyway it 1040 00:42:13,580 --> 00:42:11,520 was a beautiful day we went for a swim 1041 00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,590 afterwards we did we did it wasn't olive 1042 00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,880 and that's all that's on an earlier 1043 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:16,560 episode of the skeptic zone and you me 1044 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:20,850 and Steve Robinson yeah so yeah there 1045 00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:23,370 are in to answer your questions I I mean 1046 00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,480 I can't think of anything that 1047 00:42:27,380 --> 00:42:26,160 particularly stands out as strange I 1048 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:27,390 mean there's a lot of strange stuff out 1049 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:29,490 there and again if you want to find 1050 00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:30,570 strange claims go to the 1051 00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:33,120 mind-body-spirit first time you can walk 1052 00:42:37,070 --> 00:42:34,500 ten feet and you can find a strange 1053 00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:37,080 claim no ghosts though I guess it's just 1054 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:38,460 because they're the ones we don't see 1055 00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:40,230 very much of it so many of the strange 1056 00:42:45,410 --> 00:42:42,870 ones are just SI popularized that yeah 1057 00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:45,420 we're aware of them yeah yeah I mean 1058 00:42:48,590 --> 00:42:46,980 dowsing is pretty strange when you think 1059 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:48,600 about it but it's everyone sort of knows 1060 00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:51,210 about it I guess or as Darren said 1061 00:42:54,380 --> 00:42:52,740 breath Arians he was wondering about 1062 00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:54,390 that but I haven't investigated them 1063 00:43:00,350 --> 00:42:57,660 personally have um no I've seen that 1064 00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:00,360 some television shows but not personally 1065 00:43:06,170 --> 00:43:03,510 but I have investigated quite a few 1066 00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:06,180 alternative astronomical configurations 1067 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:07,680 that people put in particularly retired 1068 00:43:11,410 --> 00:43:09,050 engineers 1069 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:11,420 which I'm just about one I didn't have a 1070 00:43:15,730 --> 00:43:12,920 penchant for putting in their own theory 1071 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:15,740 of what at the nature of space-time oh 1072 00:43:21,070 --> 00:43:18,050 there's a couple of bad signs when they 1073 00:43:22,750 --> 00:43:21,080 start off saying i find the traditional 1074 00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:22,760 definitions of space and time to be 1075 00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:24,260 inadequate therefore i will define my 1076 00:43:31,150 --> 00:43:28,880 own it's a bad sign when do I center 1077 00:43:32,740 --> 00:43:31,160 Center diagram showing his design for 1078 00:43:36,970 --> 00:43:32,750 the solar system which included the 1079 00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:36,980 stars passing in front of the moon right 1080 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:38,990 he had sent this to a number of 1081 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:42,410 government agencies claiming mr. B's 1082 00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:44,510 theory and the CSIRO read back very 1083 00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:46,640 carefully and earnestly apparently a 1084 00:43:50,860 --> 00:43:49,250 scientist there felt sorry for even so 1085 00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:50,870 that if he would go outside next to look 1086 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:53,240 at the Stars one night you'll see that 1087 00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:55,880 they're quite that much brighter than 1088 00:43:59,650 --> 00:43:57,740 the moon and actually pass behind the 1089 00:44:02,170 --> 00:43:59,660 moon and heading consider doing an 1090 00:44:03,970 --> 00:44:02,180 actual tests of his own theory yeah and 1091 00:44:10,750 --> 00:44:03,980 this he wasn't put off at all he just 1092 00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:10,760 sent his on to us another guy had a free 1093 00:44:14,890 --> 00:44:12,590 energy machine I get a lot of those and 1094 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:14,900 he had collected had written to all the 1095 00:44:17,890 --> 00:44:16,370 scientists in Australia and government 1096 00:44:20,530 --> 00:44:17,900 authorities and so forth and collected 1097 00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:20,540 all the replies including one from mark 1098 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:22,730 Oliphant mark olifants of something like 1099 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:25,250 I've had took the time to reply which is 1100 00:44:29,590 --> 00:44:27,170 very considerate of him said I've said 1101 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:29,600 your claims in detail and there's 1102 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:32,330 nothing in them at all that indicates 1103 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:34,490 that the cold fusion as you claim it is 1104 00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:36,770 occurring so the guy put this letter 1105 00:44:40,990 --> 00:44:38,900 from Mike olifant in his CV that he 1106 00:44:44,770 --> 00:44:41,000 sends around river and says it's been 1107 00:44:46,510 --> 00:44:44,780 examined by scientists as I certain 1108 00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:46,520 people just will not be persuaded from 1109 00:44:52,180 --> 00:44:48,950 their beliefs that's true absolutely 1110 00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:52,190 true in fact that's I'm just reaching 1111 00:44:57,790 --> 00:44:54,500 over and picking up latest issue of the 1112 00:45:00,250 --> 00:44:57,800 skeptic magazine from Australia volume 1113 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:00,260 29 number two and was there a new issue 1114 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:02,930 the skeptic magazine Oh Richard just for 1115 00:45:09,220 --> 00:45:05,510 just by chance yes I just happen to have 1116 00:45:13,970 --> 00:45:09,230 one here too and there are sorry well 1117 00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:16,920 the content is quite smashing today mmm 1118 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:18,640 because we've got the new laws of 1119 00:45:22,110 --> 00:45:20,290 skepticism here a lot of people over 1120 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:22,120 Twitter especially contributed to these 1121 00:45:26,910 --> 00:45:25,690 laws of skepticism and there was one 1122 00:45:28,620 --> 00:45:26,920 here that sort of relates I'm just 1123 00:45:30,810 --> 00:45:28,630 trying to find it oh that there are many 1124 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:30,820 here it's like the most Henry's law the 1125 00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:32,650 most common reply from a psychic to a 1126 00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:34,750 skeptical question is it doesn't work 1127 00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:38,560 like that it's excellent which is quite 1128 00:45:43,530 --> 00:45:40,270 true actually you get that all the time 1129 00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:43,540 or Ellen's Law site is another one I get 1130 00:45:50,070 --> 00:45:45,550 oh sorry yes I'm not sure you're ready 1131 00:45:52,350 --> 00:45:50,080 for the explanation 27 with two degrees 1132 00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:52,360 or more you're blocking it you feeling 1133 00:45:59,940 --> 00:45:57,970 the energy cuz you said I can't finding 1134 00:46:02,430 --> 00:45:59,950 the exact one or Edmunds loss psychics 1135 00:46:04,770 --> 00:46:02,440 will always have an out which is quite 1136 00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:04,780 true anyway that's all on page 47 of the 1137 00:46:10,610 --> 00:46:07,840 latest skeptic magazine available now 1138 00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:10,620 available now woohoo alright thank you 1139 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:15,040 once again thank you down I hope we've 1140 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:16,270 answered your question a little bit 1141 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:17,770 there that we do get some interesting 1142 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:19,570 things from time to time another writer 1143 00:46:24,330 --> 00:46:21,610 now listener writes in and asks this is 1144 00:46:26,970 --> 00:46:24,340 from Patrick hello Patrick are Chinese 1145 00:46:29,630 --> 00:46:26,980 herbs this is very interesting question 1146 00:46:34,620 --> 00:46:29,640 the way it's worded our Chinese herbs as 1147 00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:34,630 harmfully ineffective as homeopathy know 1148 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:37,180 everyone's CD you don't have to think 1149 00:46:42,570 --> 00:46:39,370 the answer is no because there's 1150 00:46:44,850 --> 00:46:42,580 actually something in them oh yeah it's 1151 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:44,860 funny how acquitted it's worded I think 1152 00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:47,050 you've got to you've in something like 1153 00:46:50,430 --> 00:46:49,120 this you could take each claim on its 1154 00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:50,440 merits yeah you can't just generalized 1155 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:53,350 Chinese herbs in that if the in each 1156 00:46:59,730 --> 00:46:56,530 specific herb has got to be examined on 1157 00:47:01,980 --> 00:46:59,740 the basis of its purported efficacy for 1158 00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:01,990 whatever yeah ailment and and an 1159 00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:04,240 examined on the basis of the evidence 1160 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:09,340 now we know homeopathy is what 1161 00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:13,450 mercifully evidence-free yeah you mean 1162 00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:16,030 every you say oh there's lots of 1163 00:47:20,479 --> 00:47:17,350 evidence but it's all negative you look 1164 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:20,489 shocked dying um but 1165 00:47:24,749 --> 00:47:23,650 yeah so I mean my answer is not 1166 00:47:26,489 --> 00:47:24,759 necessarily there might be something out 1167 00:47:27,959 --> 00:47:26,499 there at cost aspirants the classic 1168 00:47:29,579 --> 00:47:27,969 example you know it came out the back of 1169 00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,589 the tree is it's completely natural 1170 00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:32,079 figures it's a commonplace conventional 1171 00:47:35,969 --> 00:47:33,609 medicine I think what Patrick's getting 1172 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:35,979 at here is that in the case of this 1173 00:47:40,709 --> 00:47:38,650 recent babe you had sadly died because 1174 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:40,719 the parents were delivering homeopathy 1175 00:47:47,849 --> 00:47:45,249 24 x mark in that any was Gloria Thank 1176 00:47:50,459 --> 00:47:47,859 You Gloria yes the Gloria Thomas in that 1177 00:47:55,410 --> 00:47:50,469 case the parents were using homeopathy 1178 00:47:57,420 --> 00:47:55,420 which was harmfully ineffective you see 1179 00:47:58,789 --> 00:47:57,430 what I'm coming I'm coming from now in 1180 00:48:01,559 --> 00:47:58,799 the case is very fact that it was 1181 00:48:03,209 --> 00:48:01,569 ineffective made it hide it made it 1182 00:48:05,489 --> 00:48:03,219 hurtful because their parents were 1183 00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:05,499 relying on it yeah that's why I stand by 1184 00:48:09,779 --> 00:48:07,209 my answer that the answer is no because 1185 00:48:12,059 --> 00:48:09,789 those hopes have something in them I did 1186 00:48:14,130 --> 00:48:12,069 actually quite often contaminated with 1187 00:48:15,870 --> 00:48:14,140 heavy metals as well and not all of them 1188 00:48:17,849 --> 00:48:15,880 but some of them so they are either 1189 00:48:19,709 --> 00:48:17,859 toxic or have an effect or don't have an 1190 00:48:21,959 --> 00:48:19,719 effect but they don't come under the 1191 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:21,969 same yeah I'm other as homeopathy they 1192 00:48:25,799 --> 00:48:23,170 are different the other thing is also 1193 00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:25,809 with them anything that has an active 1194 00:48:32,670 --> 00:48:30,209 ingredient in it combined with any other 1195 00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:32,680 medicines people so got the possibility 1196 00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:33,880 for interactions well and could 1197 00:48:38,689 --> 00:48:35,849 potentially be homme harmful so 1198 00:48:40,949 --> 00:48:38,699 something like ink about overall garlic 1199 00:48:43,319 --> 00:48:40,959 mixed with something like warfarin the 1200 00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:43,329 blood that can be catastrophic alee 1201 00:48:47,069 --> 00:48:45,880 harmful hmm and that only came out when 1202 00:48:49,049 --> 00:48:47,079 it was discovered that a lot of elderly 1203 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:49,059 people who were taking these 1204 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:52,690 combinations had catastrophic brain 1205 00:48:59,489 --> 00:48:55,930 hemorrhages because the begin CO and the 1206 00:49:02,160 --> 00:48:59,499 garlic end up resulting in even further 1207 00:49:03,959 --> 00:49:02,170 increased anticoagulation or thinning of 1208 00:49:07,049 --> 00:49:03,969 the blood and there was only discovered 1209 00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:07,059 when these people came to harm yeah as a 1210 00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:09,670 result of this so you know I think that 1211 00:49:15,449 --> 00:49:12,430 in that sense homeopathy will be 1212 00:49:19,859 --> 00:49:15,459 harmless because it's it's got nothing 1213 00:49:21,449 --> 00:49:19,869 in it a lot but it's harmful because 1214 00:49:23,969 --> 00:49:21,459 it's not treating the problem that 1215 00:49:27,029 --> 00:49:23,979 should be it should be being treated but 1216 00:49:28,589 --> 00:49:27,039 I did take the point of these things 1217 00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:28,599 happen to take on their merits depending 1218 00:49:30,550 --> 00:49:29,920 on what Chinese so we're talking about 1219 00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:30,560 what 1220 00:49:35,890 --> 00:49:33,520 text but generally speaking yes 1221 00:49:37,540 --> 00:49:35,900 homeopathy has the great attention will 1222 00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:37,550 be harmful e ineffective because it 1223 00:49:41,650 --> 00:49:39,710 doesn't do a damn thing whereas Chinese 1224 00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:41,660 herbs or any other herbs may or may not 1225 00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:46,160 contain hopes with the Chinese hopes is 1226 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:48,230 there any generally any research being 1227 00:49:51,610 --> 00:49:49,970 done on the effectiveness huge amounts 1228 00:49:53,980 --> 00:49:51,620 huge amount of research on Chinese herbs 1229 00:49:56,590 --> 00:49:53,990 a lot of it in China as a matter of fact 1230 00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,600 but not all in China there's a chinese 1231 00:50:01,000 --> 00:49:58,640 medicine research facility at the 1232 00:50:02,410 --> 00:50:01,010 University of Technology in Sydney that 1233 00:50:04,780 --> 00:50:02,420 doesn't just look at homes but looks at 1234 00:50:06,250 --> 00:50:04,790 acupuncture another Chinese medicine so 1235 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:06,260 yeah it's a massive amount of literature 1236 00:50:11,410 --> 00:50:09,530 a plenary published in peer-reviewed yes 1237 00:50:13,780 --> 00:50:11,420 yes there is a lot in peer-reviewed 1238 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:13,790 journals a lot of it is appearing in the 1239 00:50:18,010 --> 00:50:15,290 Journal of nutritional medicine or 1240 00:50:19,330 --> 00:50:18,020 something like that I would have to have 1241 00:50:21,820 --> 00:50:19,340 a look on PubMed to see if there's 1242 00:50:23,950 --> 00:50:21,830 anything in high impact factor journals 1243 00:50:26,020 --> 00:50:23,960 the likes of nature or science but 1244 00:50:27,610 --> 00:50:26,030 there's a massive amount of work being 1245 00:50:30,850 --> 00:50:27,620 done on it I imagine that every 1246 00:50:32,590 --> 00:50:30,860 pharmaceutical company would love to get 1247 00:50:35,140 --> 00:50:32,600 their hands on some naturally appearing 1248 00:50:36,550 --> 00:50:35,150 plum that's got some wonder senators not 1249 00:50:38,590 --> 00:50:36,560 treated at the moment by conventional 1250 00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:38,600 medicine I also everywhere but they just 1251 00:50:42,070 --> 00:50:40,550 hidden because of the conspiracy but 1252 00:50:44,410 --> 00:50:42,080 there's also a lot of work being done on 1253 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:44,420 the antioxidant properties of Chinese 1254 00:50:50,770 --> 00:50:46,730 herbs I go to a fair few conferences 1255 00:50:53,230 --> 00:50:50,780 with a lot of colleagues who are based 1256 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:53,240 in Asia in China and in Japan and they 1257 00:50:56,860 --> 00:50:54,770 do spend a lot of government money 1258 00:50:59,770 --> 00:50:56,870 looking at the antioxidant properties of 1259 00:51:04,090 --> 00:50:59,780 things like tea particularly green tea 1260 00:51:06,220 --> 00:51:04,100 and also rice and punish yeah yeah 1261 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:06,230 there's no evidence yet that i know of 1262 00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:08,930 that i know of because once you cook it 1263 00:51:14,770 --> 00:51:12,560 then you're affecting the you know the 1264 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:14,780 effectiveness of their antioxidants but 1265 00:51:22,170 --> 00:51:17,930 yet is a huge amount of literature but 1266 00:51:26,980 --> 00:51:22,180 in general what do you you presumably 1267 00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:26,990 want to go to the conventional medical 1268 00:51:30,820 --> 00:51:28,250 sources you'd want to go see your doctor 1269 00:51:32,830 --> 00:51:30,830 or pharmacist rather than the local 1270 00:51:35,620 --> 00:51:32,840 chinese herb store way I don't know 1271 00:51:37,870 --> 00:51:35,630 evidence was positive no no there's a 1272 00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:37,880 lot of I mean literature you know what 1273 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:39,110 we're saying there's a lot of potential 1274 00:51:43,150 --> 00:51:40,770 for Chinese 1275 00:51:44,990 --> 00:51:43,160 I didn't Chinese herbs or any herbs 1276 00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:45,000 potentially to have some kind of 1277 00:51:52,580 --> 00:51:49,920 demonstrated benefit the the best things 1278 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:52,590 still to to consult evidence-based 1279 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:55,770 medicine well it is based method yes I 1280 00:51:59,600 --> 00:51:58,050 the thing is David's it's them there 1281 00:52:01,220 --> 00:51:59,610 probably are as joe says active 1282 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:01,230 ingredients in these products just like 1283 00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:03,450 there is in you know the bar covers of a 1284 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:06,240 willow tree which is aspirin right but 1285 00:52:11,900 --> 00:52:09,090 you don't know if you go and chew on a 1286 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:11,910 willow tree how much of the active 1287 00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:13,770 ingredient you're going to get it roll 1288 00:52:18,830 --> 00:52:15,720 over that's right and that's the issue 1289 00:52:20,090 --> 00:52:18,840 with some alternative therapies such as 1290 00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,100 Chinese you don't know what you're 1291 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:22,680 getting you don't necessarily know so 1292 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:24,810 with a pharmaceutical drug and i'm being 1293 00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:26,490 paid by the big pharma where's my check 1294 00:52:41,690 --> 00:52:35,510 um I i'll be getting me out shortly oh 1295 00:52:44,770 --> 00:52:41,700 I'm sorry I'm late but I had hell on 1296 00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:44,780 trying to get those sheep in the batter 1297 00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:49,110 cuz rusty my old sheepdog he's broken 1298 00:52:54,740 --> 00:52:53,040 his leg blessing and and I just I 1299 00:52:56,570 --> 00:52:54,750 couldn't get I was running around and 1300 00:52:59,240 --> 00:52:56,580 mrs. big farmer was running around with 1301 00:53:02,360 --> 00:52:59,250 jiggling all over the place she burned 1302 00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:02,370 the lasagna o mighty was just its 1303 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:04,800 Phoenix I must tell Rosie died I must 1304 00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:06,690 tell you Big Pharma that um you might 1305 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:11,520 want to call on the lovely practitioner 1306 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:13,530 of therapeutic touch for animals to help 1307 00:53:19,850 --> 00:53:18,210 your rum yes yes there's a lovely lady 1308 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:19,860 somewhere out there who i came across 1309 00:53:25,850 --> 00:53:22,290 recently who practices therapeutic touch 1310 00:53:27,860 --> 00:53:25,860 for various analyst so I i will check it 1311 00:53:31,220 --> 00:53:27,870 out the one thing i heard last week is 1312 00:53:34,010 --> 00:53:31,230 apparently the there is only Appa thief 1313 00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,020 or dogs and we've been we've been 1314 00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:36,480 checking it out and there's big news 1315 00:53:41,540 --> 00:53:38,700 from the world of homeopathy for dogs 1316 00:53:43,850 --> 00:53:41,550 and there it doesn't work at all that's 1317 00:53:45,890 --> 00:53:43,860 it so homeopathy it's rubbish on animals 1318 00:53:47,570 --> 00:53:45,900 to the trouble with me up with you wake 1319 00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,580 everyone the trouble of big farmer is 1320 00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:49,200 here a bit zombie doesn't send us the 1321 00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:51,480 checks Ian what I will be right 1322 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:53,369 James next week I just need to bring the 1323 00:53:59,300 --> 00:53:57,570 kale from the North meadow the falls are 1324 00:54:03,920 --> 00:53:59,310 at it like rabbits at the moon I've got 1325 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:03,930 to keep them submarine you look like you 1326 00:54:08,290 --> 00:54:06,210 wanted to say something America oh well 1327 00:54:12,050 --> 00:54:08,300 a few thoughts have come and gone 1328 00:54:13,730 --> 00:54:12,060 talking about dogs oh yes I've got very 1329 00:54:18,740 --> 00:54:13,740 smart dog at home because only yesterday 1330 00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:18,750 asked the dog what's 37 minus 15 minus 1331 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:24,900 22 and the dog said nothing been 1332 00:54:33,620 --> 00:54:31,050 replaced oh and I'm the subjects of 1333 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:33,630 replacement I'm sure I can come up with 1334 00:54:39,020 --> 00:54:36,570 the worst joke on them I was in this 1335 00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:39,030 area yeah we're talking about Chinese 1336 00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:40,859 hurts then you go down to hay street and 1337 00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:43,140 into the Chinese herbalists there they 1338 00:54:48,290 --> 00:54:45,720 have an enormous array of a big cabin 1339 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:48,300 enormous array of drawers often they 1340 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:51,330 have maybe 12 x 15 drawers in a 1341 00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,490 rectangular array or with a handle on it 1342 00:54:58,190 --> 00:54:56,400 hmm and our signature herbs they open 1343 00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,200 the drawers and they take up so many 1344 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:00,720 grams of this herb and so many grams of 1345 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:02,490 that open a mix them up and boil them up 1346 00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,890 for you and the funny thing is all of 1347 00:55:11,390 --> 00:55:07,200 these two or three hundred drawers do 1348 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:11,400 not have any labels on them at all so 1349 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:12,810 the people who mix and are relying 1350 00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:15,930 entirely on their memory of what's in 1351 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:19,859 each drawer good and down with my moto 1352 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:25,170 here what's in the drawers I what's in 1353 00:55:35,330 --> 00:55:30,810 your drawers no I'm telling you that 1354 00:55:38,420 --> 00:55:35,340 only papa um Joe a topic you wanted to 1355 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:38,430 talk about I know oh yeah oh yes um it's 1356 00:55:42,740 --> 00:55:40,170 actually come about from speaking to 1357 00:55:46,130 --> 00:55:42,750 people that aren't part of the the sort 1358 00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:46,140 of active skeptical community and I've 1359 00:55:50,210 --> 00:55:47,400 you know I've just had a lot of people 1360 00:55:53,540 --> 00:55:50,220 who are aware of some of the issues 1361 00:55:57,740 --> 00:55:55,790 you know various complementary and 1362 00:56:00,560 --> 00:55:57,750 alternative medicines and and all the 1363 00:56:03,650 --> 00:56:00,570 things that we talked about and they 1364 00:56:08,030 --> 00:56:03,660 really felt I think they felt quite 1365 00:56:11,530 --> 00:56:08,040 isolated from what skeptics active 1366 00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:11,540 skeptics do yeah and they just appear 1367 00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:14,160 feel quite hostile towards people who 1368 00:56:21,830 --> 00:56:18,720 identify as being skeptics yeah and you 1369 00:56:23,690 --> 00:56:21,840 know they felt that they didn't know how 1370 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:23,700 to access the sorts of things that we 1371 00:56:28,130 --> 00:56:26,250 talked about and they said well how do 1372 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:28,140 you know if you know all these things if 1373 00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:30,090 you know about the fact that homeopathy 1374 00:56:34,850 --> 00:56:33,390 is has no evidence behind it and that 1375 00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:34,860 there is potential harm and all these 1376 00:56:39,350 --> 00:56:37,500 things well how do i as a person out 1377 00:56:41,210 --> 00:56:39,360 there who might go out and buy these 1378 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:41,220 things or who might go and see someone 1379 00:56:49,220 --> 00:56:42,690 who's offering these treatments how do I 1380 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:49,230 know that this is not a full or by mad 1381 00:56:53,330 --> 00:56:52,050 at times and it was so it's something 1382 00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:53,340 that actually has been bothering me for 1383 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:55,110 a while how do we disseminate 1384 00:57:00,440 --> 00:56:57,210 information to people in a way that is 1385 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:00,450 palatable for them when they're not 1386 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:05,250 familiar with thinking skeptically you 1387 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:06,810 know and one of the things I actually 1388 00:57:16,940 --> 00:57:11,850 thought of was some the contraband had a 1389 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:16,950 brain freeze but um what to do next the 1390 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:18,930 young old Daniel often that's so much 1391 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:22,530 yeah and skeptic yeah yeah I thought 1392 00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:25,890 that for for people who are skeptics who 1393 00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:27,510 are looking for information of how to 1394 00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:30,420 actually you know be more active and 1395 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:31,680 what to do that would be a good resource 1396 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:33,570 but generally speaking I thought what 1397 00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:35,850 can what can we do to share information 1398 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:40,170 with people in a way that is perhaps you 1399 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:41,730 know I think there are a lot of terms we 1400 00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:44,010 use like whew we're all familiar with 1401 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:46,230 but to other people it's a bit strange 1402 00:57:50,930 --> 00:57:48,570 they don't understand it it's new to 1403 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:50,940 them how can we how did you find out 1404 00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:53,490 well your own experience well my only I 1405 00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:55,200 mean I think you know I've mentioned 1406 00:58:00,560 --> 00:57:57,930 this before I've I can't remember not 1407 00:58:02,900 --> 00:58:00,570 thinking this way and I remember not 1408 00:58:03,559 --> 00:58:02,910 being a skeptic and it was really just 1409 00:58:05,359 --> 00:58:03,569 matter 1410 00:58:11,180 --> 00:58:05,369 from a small I skeptic to a biggest 1411 00:58:12,739 --> 00:58:11,190 skeptic for me so yes no it was more you 1412 00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,749 know it went from something that I was 1413 00:58:15,739 --> 00:58:14,160 aware of in my own head to something 1414 00:58:17,299 --> 00:58:15,749 that I was quite happy to shout out to 1415 00:58:20,359 --> 00:58:17,309 people because I felt it was necessary 1416 00:58:22,279 --> 00:58:20,369 to to do something you make a very good 1417 00:58:24,769 --> 00:58:22,289 point because it was only a couple of 1418 00:58:27,739 --> 00:58:24,779 weeks ago when we were in Melbourne were 1419 00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:27,749 you with Kylie and me and Stephen we 1420 00:58:33,019 --> 00:58:29,729 went into the pharmacy and we picked up 1421 00:58:35,660 --> 00:58:33,029 the bottle of sleeping pills homie up 1422 00:58:37,849 --> 00:58:35,670 papi yes I was with you yeah homeopathy 1423 00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:37,859 and the young assistant who came over 1424 00:58:41,630 --> 00:58:39,569 and said yes can I hope you didn't have 1425 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:41,640 a glue and I said yeah I'm just trying 1426 00:58:46,609 --> 00:58:44,130 I'm trying to decide which box of pills 1427 00:58:49,219 --> 00:58:46,619 to eat all at once and she looked at me 1428 00:58:51,049 --> 00:58:49,229 like I was either kidding or mad or both 1429 00:58:53,689 --> 00:58:51,059 or whatever the case may be now she 1430 00:58:55,459 --> 00:58:53,699 didn't know and she's working in a 1431 00:58:57,199 --> 00:58:55,469 pharmacy so for the general public of 1432 00:58:59,359 --> 00:58:57,209 course they're going to fall for this 1433 00:59:02,239 --> 00:58:59,369 stuff because why should they know and 1434 00:59:04,759 --> 00:59:02,249 how do they get to know I suppose we're 1435 00:59:06,829 --> 00:59:04,769 doing our bit by making well a podcast 1436 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:06,839 at the moment now hopefully there'll be 1437 00:59:10,579 --> 00:59:08,130 people who think that this will be their 1438 00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:10,589 first skeptical podcast and it'll be 1439 00:59:17,539 --> 00:59:15,359 this episode hello hello and they might 1440 00:59:19,729 --> 00:59:17,549 pick up something along the way and if 1441 00:59:21,769 --> 00:59:19,739 everybody who listens to this now have a 1442 00:59:23,449 --> 00:59:21,779 bit of a thing and if they know a friend 1443 00:59:26,239 --> 00:59:23,459 who might benefit let him know about the 1444 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:26,249 podcast in and so on but apart from that 1445 00:59:29,839 --> 00:59:27,690 well we had this discussion the other 1446 00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,849 night on skype and I mentioned to you 1447 00:59:33,439 --> 00:59:31,440 Joe that I think one of the best ways to 1448 00:59:35,719 --> 00:59:33,449 do it and this has been talked about by 1449 00:59:38,299 --> 00:59:35,729 other skeptics in the past is to get it 1450 00:59:41,269 --> 00:59:38,309 out there and particularly through blogs 1451 00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:41,279 for example write about it Twitter about 1452 00:59:47,150 --> 00:59:43,680 it linked to it get it onto the internet 1453 00:59:49,579 --> 00:59:47,160 so if somebody is a parent for example 1454 00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:49,589 and wants to do some research on let's 1455 00:59:53,359 --> 00:59:51,630 say the MMR measles mumps rubella 1456 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:53,369 vaccine because they've heard some 1457 00:59:58,459 --> 00:59:55,890 rumors that it causes autism if you type 1458 01:00:00,289 --> 00:59:58,469 him MMR autism into Google you won't 1459 01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:00,299 just get hit saying yes it does you'll 1460 01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:01,920 get lots of web pages that say it 1461 01:00:06,589 --> 01:00:03,599 doesn't for this reason in this reason 1462 01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:06,599 and I've had an experience recently 1463 01:00:12,709 --> 01:00:11,400 where someone got on somebody else's 1464 01:00:15,439 --> 01:00:12,719 blog actually Sean the blogger naughts 1465 01:00:16,999 --> 01:00:15,449 blog i was saying well you guys are 1466 01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,009 saying that vaccines don't cause this in 1467 01:00:21,289 --> 01:00:19,440 this but you know why are you saying 1468 01:00:23,390 --> 01:00:21,299 this and about six or seven of us got on 1469 01:00:25,489 --> 01:00:23,400 and said here's the reasons why here's 1470 01:00:27,049 --> 01:00:25,499 the evidence and at the end of that 1471 01:00:28,729 --> 01:00:27,059 discussion this person said well thanks 1472 01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:28,739 guys i was hoping to get a debate and i 1473 01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:30,089 was hoping to get some intelligent 1474 01:00:35,719 --> 01:00:32,430 responses and i did and i'm pleased and 1475 01:00:37,489 --> 01:00:35,729 i'll go away and think about it now so i 1476 01:00:38,749 --> 01:00:37,499 think that's really important because if 1477 01:00:40,219 --> 01:00:38,759 you type of that those sort of things 1478 01:00:42,170 --> 01:00:40,229 into google and one of the first sort of 1479 01:00:44,660 --> 01:00:42,180 hits you get is a website disputing 1480 01:00:47,809 --> 01:00:44,670 these erroneous claims that's going to 1481 01:00:49,699 --> 01:00:47,819 you know put a seed in your mind I give 1482 01:00:52,609 --> 01:00:49,709 you an opportunity to look for something 1483 01:00:55,130 --> 01:00:52,619 that is a different opinion or based in 1484 01:00:58,880 --> 01:00:55,140 evidence rather than I think also the 1485 01:01:02,180 --> 01:00:58,890 other thing is also the image that we 1486 01:01:05,029 --> 01:01:02,190 have a skeptics you know I've frequently 1487 01:01:08,479 --> 01:01:05,039 been called or being told that I'm 1488 01:01:10,609 --> 01:01:08,489 involved with the Australian cynics hmm 1489 01:01:11,989 --> 01:01:10,619 and you and that you're close mind and 1490 01:01:14,539 --> 01:01:11,999 your clothes might I mean the things I 1491 01:01:18,650 --> 01:01:14,549 think we're all familiar with um and I 1492 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:18,660 you know I think the the public 1493 01:01:24,859 --> 01:01:21,690 perception of some of what we do and how 1494 01:01:27,049 --> 01:01:24,869 we why we do this you have to need to be 1495 01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:27,059 careful because I work with a lot of 1496 01:01:31,189 --> 01:01:28,920 parents and if I go in working with 1497 01:01:32,809 --> 01:01:31,199 parents and say oh it's all rubbish and 1498 01:01:33,949 --> 01:01:32,819 you shouldn't believe all that what I 1499 01:01:35,029 --> 01:01:33,959 think that what you need to do is 1500 01:01:37,069 --> 01:01:35,039 especially if you have a relationship 1501 01:01:39,799 --> 01:01:37,079 with these people do it in small doses 1502 01:01:41,449 --> 01:01:39,809 and not over well not it's all rubbish 1503 01:01:44,959 --> 01:01:41,459 that's the worst thing that you can do I 1504 01:01:46,849 --> 01:01:44,969 think you know I sure you would have had 1505 01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:46,859 similar experiences of sitting in a 1506 01:01:51,049 --> 01:01:49,440 dinner table with people and you know 1507 01:01:52,939 --> 01:01:51,059 something I've learned as I've gone long 1508 01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:52,949 and this is you know you sometimes you 1509 01:01:56,109 --> 01:01:54,089 assume people are going to think 1510 01:01:59,269 --> 01:01:56,119 similarly to you even if they don't 1511 01:02:01,279 --> 01:01:59,279 express it and you know I've SAT with 1512 01:02:04,099 --> 01:02:01,289 people that have been a table and and 1513 01:02:05,569 --> 01:02:04,109 quite loudly expressed my views from 1514 01:02:08,170 --> 01:02:05,579 homeopathy and I realize that I'm 1515 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:08,180 sitting with people who use homie 1516 01:02:13,180 --> 01:02:10,010 and you sort of sit back and you think 1517 01:02:15,490 --> 01:02:13,190 oh you know its fine there's nothing 1518 01:02:18,059 --> 01:02:15,500 wrong with expressing here yeah but if 1519 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:18,069 they're people who use it you are 1520 01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:21,530 unaware i mean as we've said before lot 1521 01:02:24,609 --> 01:02:23,089 of people don't know what I don't me as 1522 01:02:25,900 --> 01:02:24,619 they use it they don't know what it is 1523 01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:25,910 they think that there's an active 1524 01:02:30,730 --> 01:02:28,160 ingredient or they just assume it's 1525 01:02:32,140 --> 01:02:30,740 another sort of medicine exactly not 1526 01:02:33,339 --> 01:02:32,150 even that its alternative medicine 1527 01:02:35,950 --> 01:02:33,349 especially if they go into a pharmacy 1528 01:02:38,829 --> 01:02:35,960 and it's right off the shelf why would 1529 01:02:40,750 --> 01:02:38,839 they think it's not just another medical 1530 01:02:42,579 --> 01:02:40,760 ID i think it's natural because it's a 1531 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:42,589 touted as no side effects so they think 1532 01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:45,170 its actual yes exactly the same but I 1533 01:02:49,630 --> 01:02:47,390 mean it's a fair question say well why 1534 01:02:51,819 --> 01:02:49,640 would it be sold in pharmacies if you 1535 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:51,829 know why would why would the market be 1536 01:02:56,740 --> 01:02:54,890 there why would they be able to spend 1537 01:02:58,299 --> 01:02:56,750 all this money making it and packaging 1538 01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:58,309 it and putting it out there if he were 1539 01:03:02,260 --> 01:03:00,559 just water and sugar pills and it's it's 1540 01:03:03,730 --> 01:03:02,270 a fair enough question yeah no no they 1541 01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:03,740 think it's a medicine but I think it's a 1542 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:06,170 natural medicine which in itself is but 1543 01:03:12,490 --> 01:03:10,130 still natural istic policy you know yeah 1544 01:03:14,849 --> 01:03:12,500 that's right if you pick up for example 1545 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:14,859 you know as I've said before about the 1546 01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:17,450 homeopathic remedies for pain and fever 1547 01:03:22,180 --> 01:03:20,000 for children mmm which i think is quite 1548 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:22,190 dangerous they have lollipops have you 1549 01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:24,410 seen that no I haven't yeah homeopathic 1550 01:03:31,289 --> 01:03:26,089 lollipops I'm not kidding to the kids 1551 01:03:34,329 --> 01:03:31,299 Sam thank you so the lollipops yes 1552 01:03:36,700 --> 01:03:34,339 pretty mazda that costs more than normal 1553 01:03:39,370 --> 01:03:36,710 a lollipop yes absolutely but i mean if 1554 01:03:42,849 --> 01:03:39,380 you if you pick up you know you'll see 1555 01:03:45,130 --> 01:03:42,859 tomorrow and if you read on the back and 1556 01:03:47,980 --> 01:03:45,140 it says 500 milligrams of paracetamol 1557 01:03:53,410 --> 01:03:47,990 and you pick up your homeopathic remedy 1558 01:03:55,930 --> 01:03:53,420 and it says you know fully existing 6c 1559 01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:55,940 whatever how is the average person gonna 1560 01:04:00,250 --> 01:03:57,770 have em oh what that means and you can't 1561 01:04:02,349 --> 01:04:00,260 it how can maybe yeah well yes I was 1562 01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:02,359 about to say that why should they why 1563 01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:03,980 should they should be able to go to a 1564 01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:06,770 pharmacy and simply trust that this 1565 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:11,410 stuff is on as a kosher so to speak 1566 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:13,970 should be an advertising standard that 1567 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:16,730 if it doesn't contain any ingredient it 1568 01:04:20,740 --> 01:04:18,290 should not be stated as having that 1569 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:20,750 ingredient zactly well interesting 1570 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:22,130 homeopathy is not listed with the 1571 01:04:26,140 --> 01:04:23,570 government because it contains nothing 1572 01:04:28,900 --> 01:04:26,150 so it's not regulated because it 1573 01:04:35,110 --> 01:04:28,910 contains some memory of water are you 1574 01:04:36,580 --> 01:04:35,120 some duel Heather money yes hello 1575 01:04:46,090 --> 01:04:36,590 everybody I'm sorry for all of us a 1576 01:04:48,580 --> 01:04:46,100 confusion just a little joke I'm glad 1577 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:48,590 you're here we go I've been having a 1578 01:04:57,030 --> 01:04:53,410 little little daisies others mama I'm 1579 01:04:59,590 --> 01:04:57,040 something for that I can put on our team 1580 01:05:02,860 --> 01:04:59,600 this is all the swelling yes i have but 1581 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:02,870 we discuss it later my by okay Darren's 1582 01:05:30,010 --> 01:05:10,370 drinks are going down well the other 1583 01:05:36,910 --> 01:05:30,020 thing is just to be to live the this is 1584 01:05:40,740 --> 01:05:36,920 a homeopathic ghost I should tell you 1585 01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:40,750 that Richard is on pharmaceutical drugs 1586 01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:43,910 he has some sort of flu I've been a bit 1587 01:05:48,910 --> 01:05:45,440 of a call as opposed to the illicit 1588 01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:48,920 count richie my respects do you know 1589 01:05:52,990 --> 01:05:51,110 lost the plot I've lost them but you 1590 01:05:54,220 --> 01:05:53,000 know what can I can I just come back to 1591 01:05:56,860 --> 01:05:54,230 the whole you know how do we do with 1592 01:05:58,750 --> 01:05:56,870 talking to you I'm biggest skeptic I 1593 01:06:00,070 --> 01:05:58,760 think must be last more less skeptics to 1594 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:00,080 a certain extent everybody you buy a 1595 01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:02,810 used car yeah is a smaller skeptic and 1596 01:06:07,330 --> 01:06:04,310 in that respect it's just that don't 1597 01:06:09,850 --> 01:06:07,340 apply it naturally to every situation 1598 01:06:11,890 --> 01:06:09,860 but but it is just just by by being 1599 01:06:13,390 --> 01:06:11,900 skeptical at me I remember a long busy 1600 01:06:16,039 --> 01:06:13,400 conversation with a colleague at a party 1601 01:06:19,429 --> 01:06:18,259 for some reason we got onto skepticism 1602 01:06:21,469 --> 01:06:19,439 and I don't like banging it down 1603 01:06:23,779 --> 01:06:21,479 people's throws you know I'm loving I 1604 01:06:25,219 --> 01:06:23,789 love you know shout in my mouth out if 1605 01:06:26,959 --> 01:06:25,229 people take me home and I love talking 1606 01:06:28,249 --> 01:06:26,969 to members of the community but I don't 1607 01:06:31,759 --> 01:06:28,259 like banging our a pathetic people 1608 01:06:33,259 --> 01:06:31,769 throws but he got me on to the topic 1609 01:06:34,699 --> 01:06:33,269 after a lot of beers and he was like but 1610 01:06:37,009 --> 01:06:34,709 you know and he was coming up with a 1611 01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:37,019 whole relativism thing and you know how 1612 01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:40,079 something all but it's true for me and 1613 01:06:44,089 --> 01:06:42,660 supply that most mundane all I said when 1614 01:06:46,939 --> 01:06:44,099 I tried to say as clearly as I could 1615 01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:46,949 after so many beers but there's yeah 1616 01:06:50,569 --> 01:06:49,170 there is a there is a kind of truth we 1617 01:06:53,179 --> 01:06:50,579 all share and it's the kind of truth 1618 01:06:55,609 --> 01:06:53,189 that's that's testable and either 1619 01:06:58,519 --> 01:06:55,619 something works or it doesn't work in 1620 01:07:01,669 --> 01:06:58,529 the real world yeah and you don't need 1621 01:07:04,339 --> 01:07:01,679 to get down to metaphysics or to quantum 1622 01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:04,349 dynamics to explain that you know if I 1623 01:07:06,890 --> 01:07:05,729 throw a ball in the air it's going to 1624 01:07:08,449 --> 01:07:06,900 fall down and that's the kind of truth 1625 01:07:10,969 --> 01:07:08,459 we all share no matter what culture wit 1626 01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:10,979 from and his eyes opened he just 1627 01:07:14,749 --> 01:07:12,689 realized that this relevant thing that 1628 01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:14,759 had been that had been kind of semi 1629 01:07:21,410 --> 01:07:18,689 assuming I get the lamb was just a fact 1630 01:07:23,689 --> 01:07:21,420 nonsense I think I'll i agree i think it 1631 01:07:25,549 --> 01:07:23,699 is likely nonsense but i will remember 1632 01:07:27,949 --> 01:07:25,559 that little anecdote that's a good very 1633 01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:27,959 simple thing you can you can describe it 1634 01:07:30,709 --> 01:07:29,369 when you throw the ball up it's going to 1635 01:07:32,299 --> 01:07:30,719 come down and it doesn't matter what 1636 01:07:33,890 --> 01:07:32,309 culture you're in or what you think it's 1637 01:07:36,769 --> 01:07:33,900 going to happen so there's an underlying 1638 01:07:39,650 --> 01:07:36,779 truth to questions of fact yeah I 1639 01:07:42,469 --> 01:07:39,660 shouldn't lose sight of it's something 1640 01:07:44,959 --> 01:07:42,479 that we all share no matter what 1641 01:07:47,719 --> 01:07:44,969 assumptions you're starting from a 1642 01:07:49,099 --> 01:07:47,729 background you're from or what beliefs 1643 01:07:52,959 --> 01:07:49,109 you hold there are certain things that 1644 01:07:55,969 --> 01:07:52,969 are just truly wish ever yeah I agree 1645 01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:55,979 part of the I agree with that completely 1646 01:08:03,769 --> 01:07:59,130 but I think part of the danger enum what 1647 01:08:06,259 --> 01:08:03,779 a lot of the people who are becoming 1648 01:08:10,279 --> 01:08:06,269 more vocal for example some of these 1649 01:08:13,539 --> 01:08:10,289 zone there was that that website that we 1650 01:08:16,879 --> 01:08:13,549 looked at recently which was promoting 1651 01:08:21,709 --> 01:08:16,889 various cancer cures using nutrition and 1652 01:08:24,030 --> 01:08:21,719 so on and they they almost sort of make 1653 01:08:26,820 --> 01:08:24,040 one question reality in 1654 01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:26,830 they are you know the things that we 1655 01:08:33,210 --> 01:08:29,440 have always been able to trust on it you 1656 01:08:37,070 --> 01:08:33,220 know things like that the science-based 1657 01:08:41,490 --> 01:08:37,080 things are trust about because they are 1658 01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:41,500 scientifically tested and when the way 1659 01:08:48,930 --> 01:08:43,530 these people speak about things 1660 01:08:50,370 --> 01:08:48,940 questions ones trust of of science I 1661 01:08:53,970 --> 01:08:50,380 think it makes it very difficult for 1662 01:08:55,710 --> 01:08:53,980 people who don't understand those 1663 01:08:57,570 --> 01:08:55,720 methods will you get the people who say 1664 01:09:00,329 --> 01:08:57,580 that science is just another beliefs 1665 01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:00,339 instantly exactly and so it makes it 1666 01:09:07,710 --> 01:09:04,530 very difficult for people who haven't 1667 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:07,720 had the exposure to you know things like 1668 01:09:12,750 --> 01:09:09,970 that yeah to really know what is real 1669 01:09:17,579 --> 01:09:12,760 and what is true so if if we've seen is 1670 01:09:21,420 --> 01:09:17,589 a safe alternative present itself as the 1671 01:09:23,670 --> 01:09:21,430 real safe alternative in opposition to 1672 01:09:27,930 --> 01:09:23,680 what is a scientifically accepted and 1673 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:27,940 tested thing then you know it's hard for 1674 01:09:32,430 --> 01:09:29,770 people to feel that to know what they 1675 01:09:34,140 --> 01:09:32,440 can trust it is it's not easy at all I 1676 01:09:35,820 --> 01:09:34,150 mean a lot of people think being a 1677 01:09:37,730 --> 01:09:35,830 skeptic is easier i have to go round and 1678 01:09:40,890 --> 01:09:37,740 saying no i don't think that works but 1679 01:09:42,570 --> 01:09:40,900 as i've told students and i told lots of 1680 01:09:44,910 --> 01:09:42,580 people doing talk says you have to learn 1681 01:09:47,490 --> 01:09:44,920 a lot of stuff to be a to call yourself 1682 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:47,500 a big s cavity can't just go around 1683 01:09:52,170 --> 01:09:50,170 saying it's rubbish and a lot of people 1684 01:09:54,510 --> 01:09:52,180 i mean i've come across people who said 1685 01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:54,520 oh this this is rubbish it's silly and i 1686 01:09:59,340 --> 01:09:56,890 said well why do you say that are you 1687 01:10:01,260 --> 01:09:59,350 sure it's silly i know i probably agree 1688 01:10:03,510 --> 01:10:01,270 with you that it is but why do you say 1689 01:10:05,010 --> 01:10:03,520 XYZ is implausible you know why do you 1690 01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:05,020 say alternative medicine doesn't work or 1691 01:10:09,450 --> 01:10:06,400 coming up with these rubbish do you know 1692 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:09,460 out what the claims are so that's pretty 1693 01:10:13,410 --> 01:10:11,170 important to know now what do you think 1694 01:10:14,850 --> 01:10:13,420 about the idea of publicity stunts what 1695 01:10:16,260 --> 01:10:14,860 if these trained skeptics or the skeptic 1696 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:16,270 zone did a big publicity stunt for 1697 01:10:20,580 --> 01:10:18,730 example and went down to pitt street 1698 01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,590 mall here in Sydney with a bucket full 1699 01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:22,960 of homeopathic pills in sight at you 1700 01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:24,550 know just look book movie doesn't change 1701 01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:26,530 people's lives and what it but would it 1702 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:28,210 draw people's attention to the fact that 1703 01:10:31,470 --> 01:10:29,650 there's these lunatics eating all these 1704 01:10:35,660 --> 01:10:31,480 pills there's must be something going on 1705 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:35,670 I think so hmm well we're not lunatics 1706 01:10:43,740 --> 01:10:38,170 you think so Diane see she's on my side 1707 01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:43,750 I mean he did good oh you'd be good to 1708 01:10:47,610 --> 01:10:46,180 get the publicity if he could do it it's 1709 01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:47,620 always great to get the publicity you 1710 01:10:51,060 --> 01:10:49,210 know I thought you know I'd love 1711 01:10:52,830 --> 01:10:51,070 everybody to know who we are like to see 1712 01:10:54,180 --> 01:10:52,840 this in every news agent have you 1713 01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:54,190 written a song yet embedded on the upper 1714 01:10:58,860 --> 01:10:56,170 think it's so small it's very very soon 1715 01:11:00,900 --> 01:10:58,870 it's it's it's after i've got i've got 1716 01:11:02,310 --> 01:11:00,910 i've got i've got us yes well yeah 1717 01:11:04,020 --> 01:11:02,320 there's something there's something good 1718 01:11:07,380 --> 01:11:04,030 there's something something forming 1719 01:11:10,170 --> 01:11:07,390 there it's like Aunt late yeah I've got 1720 01:11:12,930 --> 01:11:10,180 home a homeopathic levels of inspiration 1721 01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:12,940 but I don't you you've had experience 1722 01:11:15,630 --> 01:11:14,290 Richard with things like that for 1723 01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:15,640 example when you went out to Macquarie 1724 01:11:20,610 --> 01:11:17,710 uni you with the skeptics skeptics some 1725 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:20,620 crowd there at a week yeah and you know 1726 01:11:24,540 --> 01:11:21,850 you're getting a lot of people coming 1727 01:11:26,700 --> 01:11:24,550 through there who you know uni students 1728 01:11:28,350 --> 01:11:26,710 attending a week who who would pass wide 1729 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:28,360 skipped extending to see demonstrations 1730 01:11:32,580 --> 01:11:31,330 of various things I mean that that's a 1731 01:11:34,620 --> 01:11:32,590 good forum for seeing which with 1732 01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:34,630 interest is such group that work the 1733 01:11:37,470 --> 01:11:36,310 Macquarie skeptics a marvelous you get a 1734 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:37,480 lot of people interested out there I 1735 01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:39,730 think that those university groups are 1736 01:11:43,020 --> 01:11:41,650 priceless they're great and I hope those 1737 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:43,030 there's some more I think going to be 1738 01:11:46,860 --> 01:11:45,130 starting up in Sydney soon I also think 1739 01:11:48,810 --> 01:11:46,870 that Simon Singh this case is probably 1740 01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:48,820 the worst thing for homeopathy but they 1741 01:11:58,430 --> 01:11:56,280 so I see your point yeah I see a point 1742 01:12:01,710 --> 01:11:58,440 now talking about finding things Rachel 1743 01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:01,720 what's that oh I just wanted to mention 1744 01:12:07,410 --> 01:12:04,450 the onion piece that came out yesterday 1745 01:12:09,780 --> 01:12:07,420 which was um genex thing with the onion 1746 01:12:11,940 --> 01:12:09,790 is for people who the onion yeah it's a 1747 01:12:14,970 --> 01:12:11,950 satirical newspaper which is now gone 1748 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:14,980 online and videos and ya know they have 1749 01:12:20,490 --> 01:12:17,410 a very extravagant oh yeah it's great 1750 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:20,500 website actually that it's for 1751 01:12:23,550 --> 01:12:21,730 Australian list since it's a little bit 1752 01:12:26,250 --> 01:12:23,560 like what the chaser used to do when 1753 01:12:28,050 --> 01:12:26,260 they did CNN and n but very polished and 1754 01:12:30,690 --> 01:12:28,060 looks a lot like sort of Fox News or CNN 1755 01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:30,700 really does yeah and um yeah they have 1756 01:12:35,310 --> 01:12:32,770 some pretty outrageous stories which we 1757 01:12:38,090 --> 01:12:35,320 we saw one a week or so ago when they 1758 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:38,100 had the shaken baby that was brilliant 1759 01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:41,290 see I like that see Rachel's not so sure 1760 01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:42,290 Rachel beauty 1761 01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:44,960 I mean this happened that I saw it just 1762 01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:46,400 a few days after the chase that got 1763 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:48,080 taken off the air for two weeks for 1764 01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:50,810 their story about making an outrageous 1765 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:52,610 Wish Foundation whatever it's called and 1766 01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:54,410 I thought it was really it really 1767 01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:56,480 crossed the line but Diane thought it 1768 01:13:01,660 --> 01:12:58,730 was really funny it was so many areas 1769 01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:01,670 and I myself chase it I didn't we were a 1770 01:13:07,900 --> 01:13:04,400 couple with the chasers it either but 1771 01:13:09,250 --> 01:13:07,910 that shaking baby but we won't spoil if 1772 01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:09,260 listeners want to go to the onion 1773 01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:10,640 website they'll probably find it but it 1774 01:13:14,350 --> 01:13:12,410 has to do with a baby in a baby capture 1775 01:13:16,450 --> 01:13:14,360 but Willie yeah just do a search anyway 1776 01:13:18,970 --> 01:13:16,460 good anywhere today the onion or 1777 01:13:21,790 --> 01:13:18,980 yesterday they put out their little sort 1778 01:13:24,370 --> 01:13:21,800 of box pop on the website which is 1779 01:13:26,860 --> 01:13:24,380 called what do you think and it was 1780 01:13:29,380 --> 01:13:26,870 called our vaccine rejecters put kids at 1781 01:13:30,670 --> 01:13:29,390 risk this is where they just interview 1782 01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:30,680 people on the street Nelson for their 1783 01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:33,440 opinions and they said that though 1784 01:13:37,780 --> 01:13:35,090 children who go I'm vaccinated for 1785 01:13:39,370 --> 01:13:37,790 whooping cough are 23 times more likely 1786 01:13:41,500 --> 01:13:39,380 to contract the illness than those who 1787 01:13:43,570 --> 01:13:41,510 get their shots many parents are still 1788 01:13:46,210 --> 01:13:43,580 choosing to forgo immunization for their 1789 01:13:47,860 --> 01:13:46,220 kids what do you think and they go out 1790 01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:47,870 and ask you know mr. Joe of the street 1791 01:13:52,060 --> 01:13:50,450 hmm do they how do they were just like I 1792 01:13:54,910 --> 01:13:52,070 mentioned it was satire when you would 1793 01:13:57,130 --> 01:13:54,920 hear Dave but um they might make it up 1794 01:13:58,450 --> 01:13:57,140 be decide for yourself here they were 1795 01:14:00,850 --> 01:13:58,460 spoken to a gentleman by the name of 1796 01:14:02,830 --> 01:14:00,860 Scott sacks and he is a baker and i'm 1797 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:02,840 going to get my big farmer to read out 1798 01:14:09,850 --> 01:14:06,050 his response or i can read this out this 1799 01:14:14,860 --> 01:14:09,860 way Scott sacked the the Baker says but 1800 01:14:18,010 --> 01:14:14,870 vaccinations cause autism sure science 1801 01:14:22,780 --> 01:14:18,020 says otherwise but Jenny McCarthy are 1802 01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:22,790 some real convincing anak no thank you 1803 01:14:28,060 --> 01:14:25,760 big pharma the onion also spoke to 1804 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:28,070 kitson done it was a feed blender now 1805 01:14:32,410 --> 01:14:29,210 Big Pharma you might know something 1806 01:14:36,220 --> 01:14:32,420 about blending feed I I know Ivy ivy 1807 01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:36,230 I've had a regular fee blender now 1808 01:14:44,350 --> 01:14:40,880 earnings Janet she she comes down once a 1809 01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:44,360 week so to blend my feed and she she 1810 01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:46,130 gets the feet and she puts into her feet 1811 01:14:51,730 --> 01:14:48,410 blending equipment mental and and she 1812 01:14:53,650 --> 01:14:51,740 she blends it and it cost me two hundred 1813 01:14:54,959 --> 01:14:53,660 pounds of time and I'm not even sure but 1814 01:14:58,140 --> 01:14:54,969 she's an expert 1815 01:15:03,660 --> 01:14:58,150 also the onion also asked a gentleman by 1816 01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:03,670 the name of Michael foul foul and he is 1817 01:15:09,299 --> 01:15:06,400 a brick junction maker and I believe 1818 01:15:11,489 --> 01:15:09,309 Diane know something about function 1819 01:15:14,009 --> 01:15:11,499 right over let their specialized adjust 1820 01:15:16,140 --> 01:15:14,019 to intersections just Brickley 1821 01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:16,150 intersections they studied for four 1822 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:18,550 years to be able to adjust intersections 1823 01:15:21,870 --> 01:15:20,170 so they don't through the law it had 1824 01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:21,880 many very long stretch a bit of the wall 1825 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:23,440 that is doing aware of their joy because 1826 01:15:27,450 --> 01:15:25,570 it's very different it's a yeah 1827 01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:27,460 different when you've got two directions 1828 01:15:33,839 --> 01:15:31,570 in 26 yeah you're having a third 1829 01:15:35,729 --> 01:15:33,849 dimension in that well if you're in 1830 01:15:37,739 --> 01:15:35,739 Melbourne nearly all junctions are 90 1831 01:15:39,660 --> 01:15:37,749 degrees so that's fairly difficult but 1832 01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:39,670 in Sydney of course streets needed all 1833 01:15:43,859 --> 01:15:41,440 sorts of different angles so it's even 1834 01:15:46,739 --> 01:15:43,869 more complicated so big farmer can you 1835 01:15:48,930 --> 01:15:46,749 read out what Michael Tao brick Junction 1836 01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:48,940 maker had to say about this topic my old 1837 01:15:55,020 --> 01:15:52,719 foul the brick junction maker says some 1838 01:15:58,140 --> 01:15:55,030 people may call me a bad parent for not 1839 01:16:01,200 --> 01:15:58,150 have my children vaccinated other people 1840 01:16:03,689 --> 01:16:01,210 may call me an irresponsible but 1841 01:16:08,370 --> 01:16:03,699 personally I don't see why I can't be 1842 01:16:10,589 --> 01:16:08,380 both thank you to the onion thank you 1843 01:16:12,839 --> 01:16:10,599 ready and thank you everybody for 1844 01:16:14,850 --> 01:16:12,849 enjoying the think tank with us tonight 1845 01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:14,860 out there listening and thank you to all 1846 01:16:20,729 --> 01:16:17,920 the tankers here with me today and thank 1847 01:16:44,100 --> 01:16:20,739 you once again to down for your generous 1848 01:16:47,609 --> 01:16:46,560 hi Phil Plait from Bad Astronomy calm 1849 01:16:50,010 --> 01:16:47,619 and the James Randi Educational 1850 01:16:51,870 --> 01:16:50,020 Foundation here if you want to get an 1851 01:16:54,030 --> 01:16:51,880 American take on things like moon 1852 01:16:56,129 --> 01:16:54,040 hoaxers astrology chiropractors 1853 01:16:57,959 --> 01:16:56,139 creationists anti-vaxxers global warming 1854 01:16:59,850 --> 01:16:57,969 denialists homeopaths psychics UFO 1855 01:17:03,660 --> 01:16:59,860 believers and doom Criers of any flavor 1856 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:03,670 then go to bad astronomy calm Randy org 1857 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:06,730 or skeptic blog org and there you'll be 1858 01:17:10,590 --> 01:17:08,770 able to read me ranting railing frothing 1859 01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:10,600 and foaming about hoaxes nonsense 1860 01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:13,090 pseudoscience anti science and anyone 1861 01:17:34,379 --> 01:17:32,939 and there we have it another show I'll 1862 01:17:36,930 --> 01:17:34,389 be very much looking forward to getting 1863 01:17:39,270 --> 01:17:36,940 my co-host back next week when his vocal 1864 01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:39,280 cords recover and we'll do it all again 1865 01:17:43,410 --> 01:17:41,650 this is the skeptic zone thanks for 1866 01:17:45,090 --> 01:17:43,420 listening be getting some great reviews 1867 01:17:46,859 --> 01:17:45,100 and coverage for all the stuff that 1868 01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:46,869 we've been doing lately and definitely 1869 01:17:50,250 --> 01:17:48,159 thanks to Richard for all the wonderful 1870 01:17:52,950 --> 01:17:50,260 effort he's been doing but will be back 1871 01:17:54,780 --> 01:17:52,960 next week and Richard will be back too 1872 01:17:59,000 --> 01:17:54,790 so we'll look forward to that thanks for 1873 01:18:05,430 --> 01:18:01,410 you've been listening to the skeptic 1874 01:18:09,180 --> 01:18:05,440 zone visit our website at www skeptics 1875 01:18:11,770 --> 01:18:09,190 on TV for comments contacts and extra 1876 01:18:16,890 --> 01:18:11,780 video reports